How the Stories We Tell Ourselves Can Make or Break Our Relationship with Lindsey Carnick

Episode Summary of “How the Stories We Tell Ourselves Can Make or Break Our Relationship with Lindsey Carnick”

We all tell ourselves stories — about our partners, our relationships, and even about who we are. But what happens when those stories start to hurt our connection instead of helping it? In this episode, I sit down with Lindsey Carnick to talk about something that shapes every relationship — the stories we tell ourselves.

As humans, we are meaning-making creatures. Our brains are constantly trying to connect dots, fill in blanks, and make sense of what’s happening around us — especially in our closest relationships. But sometimes, the stories we tell ourselves aren’t accurate, and they can quietly erode trust, intimacy, and emotional safety.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• Why our brains are “meaning-making machines” and how that affects relationships
• How assumptions and quick judgments can fuel conflict
• The difference between reactions and responses — and why slowing down matters
• How to recognize your body’s early warning signs of escalation
• Tools like the RLT Timeout to create space and safety during conflict
• The power of clear communication: setting your partner up for success
• Why remembering you’re on the same team can transform your perspective

Lindsey and I explore how these stories form, how they impact our reactions, and what we can do to change them. We also talk about what it really means to slow down, respond with intention, and remember that you and your partner are on the same team.

If you’ve ever found yourself overthinking, assuming, or feeling misunderstood, this conversation will help you slow down, get curious, and reconnect with what’s actually true.

Don’t forget to check out our free 10-week relationship email course. This email course is really designed for people who are maybe having trouble with communication or connection in their relationship and helping them develop some quick wins right away to start improving it.

Guest Speaker Bio – “Lindsey Carnick”

Lindsey Carnick, LCSW, MSW, MA, is the Owner/Founder of Onward Psychological Services, a private practice psychotherapy firm serving adult individuals and couples who want change in their lives. Lindsey is a frequent presenter locally and nationally of the interactive and damn fun workshop, “Practical/Tactical Stress Management for Professionals” in which participants learn easily actionable skills and strategies to reduce chronic and acute stress symptoms in just three minutes or less.

Lindsey holds a Master of Arts degree from Purdue University and a Master of Social Work degree from Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis. She earned her LCSW designation in 2010 and is proud to have helped with a diverse range of clients including incarcerated juveniles, military officers, professional athletes, c-suite executives, physicians, techpreneurs, and working moms and dads.

Lindsey loves reading, writing, hot yoga, the outdoors, and spending time with her family. Her unique talents include eating dry cereal at remarkable rates, gift wrapping (although due to the unfortunate ecological impact of gift wrap supplies she’s officially retired from this), and making fancydancy broken yolk egg sandwhiches.

Episode Transcript for “How the Stories We Tell Ourselves Can Make or Break Our Relationship with Lindsey Carnick”

This podcast is sponsored by Communicate and Connect Counseling, where we have a team of therapists who provide individual couples and family therapy services, all tailored to meet the needs of military and veteran families. To learn more about our services, visit www.communicateandconnect.com.

Welcome to the Communicate and Connect podcast for military relationships with your host, Elizabeth Polinsky, a military marriage counselor. If this is your first time listening to the Communicate and Connect podcast, please take a second to go rate review and subscribe to make sure you get all our future episodes.

We also really wanna know what it is you love about our podcast, and if for some reason you’re not loving it, we wanna know that too because we’re committed to providing the best quality content to help you improve your relationships.

You’re listening to episode 68, How the Stories We Tell Ourselves Can Make or Break Our Relationship with Lindsey Carnick.

Introduction

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Great, Lindsey, I’m so glad to have you here on the podcast.

Lindsey Carnick: Thanks, Liz. Thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here with you.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah. Maybe you can just introduce yourself a little bit. And let everyone know who you are and what it is that you do.

Lindsey Carnick: I’m a licensed clinical social worker. I have a practice that’s based outta Colorado, although I’m licensed in 10 states. So I see folks all over the country and I see adult individuals and couples. And I spent some time as the, say, couples therapist for a veteran’s health and trauma center in Colorado Springs, which was a real privilege.

Lindsey Carnick: And a unique experience, really wonderful experience, was very honored and humbled to be a part of that organization and to be able to serve in that capacity.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: That’s so great. I’m thinking you’re perfect for our podcast.

Understanding the Power of Stories

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: I don’t know it super well, but I know that a lot of what you do has to do with stories and the ways that you help individuals, but also couples navigate relationships. So I was hoping you could share a little bit about what our stories, how do stories impact us and relationships.

Lindsey Carnick: So we’re meaning making creatures, right? We are meaning making machines. And part of that is we have this incredible equipment developed up here that we refer to as the brain, and specifically this new part, the prefrontal cortex and all the executive functionings.

And a part of what it’s so good at is making sense out of things, right? Connecting dots. And sometimes it connects dots in orders that are not. Actually representative of what’s going on. It’s great at connecting dots. It doesn’t always connect dots in the same order or incongruence with what the shape is that it’s seeing, but it doesn’t know that.

And so we create stories all the time, whether they’re little stories and simple, or whether they are long and complicated stories about what other people are doing or what their intentions are. Or what they’re up to, or what they’re thinking or what their motivations are, and those stories can have profound ramifications for how we then show up with those people, which can be very confusing because we are often acting on this framework that is functionally imaginary to us.

Personal Anecdotes and Misinterpretations

Lindsey Carnick: I like to tell this fabulously humiliating story about myself. Creating a story. Um, once my husband offered me a winter hat it was snowing and we were going outside, and he was standing by the hats, it made total sense, right? He was standing by the outdoor closet and he chival offered me a hat, and the story in my mind that formed in about 22 seconds was, oh, this guy thinks I don’t know how to dress myself for the outdoors.

Like this instant story of indignation about my competency in the world. No, he was actually just offering me a hat. ’cause he’s nice. Yeah. And he chairs right. Anyone stand by that. But whatever. I was showing up with that day, whatever B was in my bonnet, right? I created this Insta story about the meaning.

[00:03:35] Lindsey Carnick: Of what he said, not what he said, the meaning of what he said. And we do that so automatically, so often, right? People joke about reading into text messages where you can’t see people’s body language and stuff. But the truth is we are absolutely insatiable in terms of reading into things. Long before there were text messages, we look at people, we go, what do you mean by that?

What is that facial expression? People not making any facial expression. They had a itch on their nose, you know, but we’re like, well, wait, I, I saw that, you know, I saw that body language. What does that mean? It didn’t mean anything, but it, it’s very difficult for us. Not to scan the environment looking for these signs and looking for these cues that we want to interpret so that we know what’s going on before it’s going on, right?

We’re constantly scanning the horizon for threats. That’s how we’re wired. And part of that is second guessing often people’s intentions and their body language and what this means and what that means. And sometimes we’re correct. Sometimes there’s more going on there. Sometimes they’re just offering you a hat ’cause it’s cold outside.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah. I’m thinking about how often I hear couples say, you’re assuming my intentions are, don’t make assumptions. Yes. It’s so common. Yes. And I like your story about the hat. I have something similar and it happens every time. My husband laughs. He does this thing where he will laugh at me and immediately the story is, you’re making fun of me.

We have the same conversation every time it happens. No. And he’ll say, no, I think you’re cute, or no, it’s, it’s me feeling loving feelings. And even though I know this, it’s the meaning that I make.

Lindsey Carnick: It’s a reactionary. Meaning it just happens.

Reactions vs. Responses

Lindsey Carnick: It happens so fast that we’re not processing it up here. It’s not something that’s being processed intentionally, right?

It’s happening on the cellular old level of some other time and place where that really felt like a bad thing or a dangerous thing, and we still have these reactionary. Patterns that are, are quite difficult to change in the sense that we can change our relationship to them, which is all that’s necessary.

Right? You don’t have to get rid of the reaction. We just have to figure out how to change our reactions to our reactions. Yeah. Or change our responses to our reactions. Trying to get rid of reaction is a little bit like trying to get rid of a thought. Usually. The harder you try and do that, it’s the boomerang effect.

The harder you throw it, the faster it comes back and smacks you in the face. If we turn our attention to going, oh. That’s the reaction I have when that scenario presents itself. How can I cultivate a different response to my reaction as opposed to not having the reaction? Because not having the reaction is a little bit like saying.

I can’t have it rain while it’s gonna rain. It’s gonna rain. Sorry. Now what? You gonna get an umbrella or are you gonna stand there screaming? I’m gonna make it stop raining.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah. I really like that because literally my next question was going to be how do you change it?

Lindsey Carnick: We don’t have to change the it, we simply have to change response. The difference between a reaction or response is a reaction is the thing that happens automatically with no frontal lobe involvement, right? Yeah. Or response is all frontal lobe. It’s something we choose. So I can have an emotional reaction. I can seize up on the inside and go think I’m incompetent addressing myself for the winter weather, right?

I can have that reaction on the inside, observe that and go, oh yeah, there’s that. Then I can choose a response and go, no thank you. You know, or Sure, or, I don’t know. I’m thinking about whatever. I can choose an external response that doesn’t have to be dictated by my internal reaction.

Managing Escalation in Relationships

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: And I’m hearing that part of being able to do that is somehow slowing down enough. So that way my internal reaction, it doesn’t become my external reaction.

Lindsey Carnick: And to recognize that it’s a reaction. Many of us can say, Ooh, we have some awareness about our reactions, right? People go like, oh, I know I go to zero to 60 in a heartbeat. You know, I, I know that about myself. Okay, well, if you know that about yourself, then your goal is to buy yourself time.

When that’s happening, so that you’re not acting on 60. Right. The problem is when people start acting on 60, not that they go to 60 necessarily. So we’re all cultivating this ability to observe what’s happening internally and go, oh wow, that’s happening right now. Yeah, golly. What am I gonna do with it?

What is my response to that going to be? And I think very often we. Have this interesting thing in this culture about authenticity, right? We put an incredible value on authenticity, and I think often we misconstrue what authenticity means in some ways, having a zero to 60. Reaction and then spewing venom on the person in front of you is not being authentic.

You know, authenticity is not a one-to-one. I feel terrible. Ergo, I’m gonna make you feel terrible. That’s not authenticity. That’s called lashing out. That’s no more authentic than saying to somebody, I am so hurt right now. I can taste vinegar that is as authentic as screaming at somebody. It is a different way of articulating and expressing your authentic experience.

Yes. Right. So raging at somebody when you feel enraged is not more authentic than articulating to them. It’s the difference between acting out and expressing, right. You can act out your rage on someone, or you can articulate your rage to them, right? One is not more authentic than the other, but one certainly has better consequences than the other, especially for your relationship.

[00:09:50] Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Uh, yeah, absolutely. I’m thinking like if my husband was lashing out at 60, I would be like, Nope, you can leave.

Like, exactly. Exactly. And it’s not that you don’t want to know how he authentically feels. You do. You are definitely interested in that. But the delivery of I feel enraged and now I’m going to rage on you. No, that’s a negative that is not authentic. Or it is as authentic emoting, which is different than authentic expressing.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yes. Yeah, because the lashing out is almost not even an expression. It feels more like an attack, like something that’s being done. To me, if it’s on the receiving end, it doesn’t feel like an expression.

Lindsey Carnick: Absolutely. If that part of us really wants to be heard. Right, which is usually what’s happening there. The other person is less able to hear you if they feel attacked, right? So if you want somebody to understand how you’re feeling, you will always be better off articulating it, expressing it to them, as opposed to acting it out on them.

Because if you act it out on them, they will do this. Way or the other, verbally, emotionally, et cetera. And when they’re doing this, they’re not listening to you. They have stopped and ceased listening to what you’re saying. They are simply trying to protect themselves from what’s happening. You are not making yourself heard.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah. This makes a lot of sense that thinking about the delivery. And that I can still have my real experience, but I’m also wanting to think about how do I talk about this with my partner in a way that’s actually going to work for our relationship and get us somewhere in a positive space versus just tearing it to treads, uh, in the worst case scenario.

Lindsey Carnick: Yes, because ultimately if you’re hurting about something, and that results in a rage reaction or a big reaction, right? That could be emoted out on somebody. Let’s back up to the initial part. You need help with something from your partner, right? You need empathy or you need compassion, or you need support.

You are needing something, and if you attack the person from whom you are needing something, the chances of your needs getting met go down. Exponentially by the second, because again, someone who’s doing this, whether it’s literal or metaphorical, cannot help you. They’re defending themselves. They’re busy.

There’s no help for you when they’re trying to help themselves from what you’re doing. This is not gonna work.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah, and so I’m thinking how does someone have that space to start noticing like, this is coming up on the inside of me and I need a moment somehow to be able to then choose how to handle the situation.

Lindsey Carnick: I think a couple things, and one is that some of this work has to be done when it’s not happening. It’s kind of like a swim meet is not a good time to learn to do the stroke. When you’re under pressure, when you’re like, not when you wanna learn to, right? Like you need to go to the pool and practice probably before you go try and swim in a meet where there’s some pressure and the stakes are higher and right, because that’s what a disagreement is.

The stakes are a higher pressures a higher everybody’s lamp on, so not a good time to learn a new swimming stroke. So what we can start to practice. When it’s not happening, right, is noticing how escalation presents in our own physical beings, right? Because that’s a sign that we can recognize no matter what you’re thinking, maybe you may literally be seeing stars and your thinking may just be like, like white noise because of how you’re feeling, right?

There may be nothing discernible going on from the neck up that you can parse out. That’s fine. What we always notice is what’s going on in the rest of us, right? We can say like, oh. You know, I know a sign for me is I start to grind my teeth or I start to clench my jaw. I start to get around, or I notice in my solar plexus in my chest that I start to get a feeling, or I start to feel it in my stomach, or I start to feel it in my hands or my shoulders, and we can start to get familiar with these signs long before.

These are the signs that you’re going 10. Right. We wanna notice the signs when the speeds hit 10, not when it’s hit 60. It’s much harder to break at 60 than it’s at 10, right? So these are looking for the yellow lights, not the red lights, and going like, oh, oh, oh. I’m pump the brakes now while I’m only going 10, because it’s much easier to slow down the vehicle attend than 60, right?

Let’s not let it get to 60. And we can start to say and develop ways of articulating to this other person across from us. Excuse me. It’s my responsibility to let you know that I just hit 15, maybe heading for 20. And I know that when I get past 35, things start to be less constructive. So I need to respectfully let you know that I need a minute or, and this is not, I do wanna talk to you about this.

I know this is important to you. It’s important to me too. I wasn’t committed to coming back to it, but now is not a constructive time for me.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah, I could see that. So helpful if someone was able to do that.

The RLT Timeout Technique

Lindsey Carnick: Yes, and there’s actually, Terry Real has developed something in RLT called the RLT Timeout and the RLT timeout is really wonderful because it establishes two things again when it’s not happening, right?

This is not something you discuss in the moment. This is a precondition you work out, and the RLT timeout establishes two or three things. The first one is you and your partner determine what the timeout stands for. So for example, if the phrase is just timeout or the this or something, you both agree that it stands for a certain sentiment.

Dear partner, for whatever reason I’m about to lose it right now. I cannot explain this to you. It would be better if, which, and you both understand that this or timeout is shorthand. Yeah. For this other thing that you’ve mutually agreed upon. And the second cool piece about the RLT timeout that I think is so powerful is you mutually agree.

On how long it’s gonna be before you check back in, and the check-in is not an agreement to resume the discussion. The check-in is merely a check-in to resume connection. Not like now we have to resolve it because we’re checking in. It’s been 20 minutes. So you say, look, I’m gonna check back in 20 minutes.

[00:16:16] Lindsey Carnick: Okay. Okay. And then you check back in 20 minutes. And then how are you doing? I think I’m down to a, I think I’m holding steady at 20 head in the right direction. Okay. Do you need some more time? I think I do. How much time would you like? I’d like another 20 minutes. Okay. And it establishes a mutually agreed upon time limit so that nobody’s feeling stonewalled.

‘Cause the worst is when your partner goes, I need time. And you’re like, okay. And then they disappear and you’re like, ah. And that person is left with the anxiety of. Are we ever gonna talk about it again? Are we never gonna talk about it again? Are they just gonna ignore me for the next two days? That’s a terrible feeling, right?

To be feeling stonewalled even if the other person isn’t actively stonewalling you. So by agreeing when it’s not happening. What your timeout timeframe is and agreeing who’s gonna be responsible for it. So usually it’s the person who calls the timeout is responsible for setting their alarm. I point at my wrist like anybody’s wearing a watch these days, setting their alarm right for 20 minutes, and because they called the time out, they’re the one who’s responsible for coming back and saying, Hey, I’m checking in.

Here’s how I’m doing. How are you doing? Do we need? I don’t know. Do you? Mm-hmm. Do we think we can care? Do you wanna talk? I think I need more time. And you can investigate an RLT time out. There are some other interesting ins and outs of that tool that are wonderful and it sets some parameters about maximum amounts of time and minimum amounts of time.

And when you bring up the subject again versus just checking in so that again, nobody’s left feeling either pressured or left on their own to deal with this unresolved thing. It’s a really great tool.

Tools for Self-Awareness and Communication

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: I’m thinking if I’m just keeping track of the tools that people can use, maybe in my mind, so one, I guess tool or skill or ability is that I need to start being aware of my own body sensations and what it’s like when I am revving up at

Lindsey Carnick: Yes, the signs of a reaction are brewing. What does it look like at 5, 10, 15, 20 miles an hour long before you get to 60?

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah. And then to know like where my cutoff is. The second step? Yes. Uh, like this is the point where I know we need a timeout, so that way I can be the type of partner that I wanna be. So

Lindsey Carnick: honor my own feelings, right? Because we don’t want it to become a situation where you wanna be the kind of partner you wanna be.

And also you feel like in order to do that, you have to stay in the interaction when you can’t. That’s a rock and a hard place, right? It’s a double buying to be like, I can’t be the kind of partner I wanna be right now, but I feel like if I leave the interaction, I’m also not being the kind of partner I wanna be.

Now what? Right? Yeah. And so we wanna give people a safe way to do all of those things and say, I am a good partner. I am committed to continuing this important conversation with you. And I’m committed to honoring my own feelings in this moment. Yeah. And being good to myself and understanding that doing the constructive thing for myself is also an important way of being a good steward of the relationship.

How can we do all of these things at the same time? Because best intentions aside. We’re not being a good steward of the relationship if we say I can’t be constructive right now, so time out and then walk away and leave our partner hanging.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah. Okay.

Lindsey Carnick: We’ve avoided one pitfall, which is like being explosive or lashing out or escalating.

Good. That’s good. We’ve now created another one though, which is we’ve sort of given ourselves this like I’m doing the right thing. By taking myself outta this equation, I’ll get back to you when I can, and that leaves the other person in an unhelpful situation.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: I was just, as you were saying that I had this picture of a minefield go through my mind and I was like, that’s marriage isn’t it? Like one option is like this minefield and another one is this one. And what you’re talking about is like, how do I get this balance to try to avoid all the downsides, all the,

Lindsey Carnick: how do we meet both people’s needs?

Balancing Individual and Relationship Needs

Lindsey Carnick: How do we honor both people’s needs and the needs of the relationship when they seem to be at odds? And the answer is, it’s eminently doable if you’re not trying to do them all at the same time.

So if you can say, Hey. I’m gonna come back and meet your needs to have this conversation. And in order to meet your needs to have this conversation first, I need to go calm down. So I need to meet my own needs first in order to come back and meet your need. Everybody’s needs are gonna get met. They just cannot be met at exactly the same time. Okay.

[00:21:05] Setting Time Limits for Emotional Safety

Lindsey Carnick: And that’s again why we set the time limit, right? I’ll be back in 20 minutes, I’ll be back in 25 minutes, so that we’re creating a sense of emotional safety for the other person again, that they don’t have to just be like. Left hanging and in the state of anxiety about are we gonna talk about it? When are we gonna talk about it? Are we ever gonna talk about it?

[00:21:24] Navigating Double Binds in Relationships

Lindsey Carnick: And so many people have this double bind where they go. I don’t wanna tell my partner not to take the time out if they need it, but also it feels really bad to feel like, I don’t know if and when we’ll ever get back to this subject because we had to leave it because that person escalated.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yes. I was just thinking, my husband’s like one of his favorite sayings, he hasn’t actually said it recently, but when we first got married, he was always saying like the closest alligator to the boat, and that’s coming to my mind right now is like, who is. Closer to their breaking point where it’s gonna go downhill.

That’s the need. It sounds like that we have to prioritize first is that we have to make sure we both are in places that we can actually engage together.

Lindsey Carnick: I think the key phrase you said is being first, but not exclusively. The understanding is that is a necessary step to be able, again, to help that other person meet their needs, and that this is ultimately a collaborative effort where we want to meet everybody’s needs and the needs of the relationship.

Lindsey Carnick: We’re not prioritizing one person’s needs over the other. We’re simply saying in this moment, in this situation, this is a precondition to moving forward on this. So I guess we do that first. It’s pragmatism is highest.

Understanding and Addressing Patterns

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah, and I’m thinking about how there can be so many stories related to it. So there can be the story that’s related to my initial reaction.

And I’m thinking the more I’m aware of, especially if it’s a pattern, like with mine, with my husband, I know that every time he laps I’m gonna be like, oh, is he making fun of me? It’s just happens all the time. So if there’s a repetitive nature to it, then I can get familiar with the body sensations. But I was also thinking.

Even in like a timeout, there could be more stories, right? It’s like the story of what I’m telling myself that my partner needs a timeout or the story of what I’m telling myself that I need a timeout. And I guess I’m just thinking there are stories everywhere. It,

Lindsey Carnick: it’s so true and it’s so human and understandable. I think the timeouts a great example.

The Impact of Timeouts and Stories

Lindsey Carnick: Let’s just say in perfectly good faith. Person A says, Hey, I need a timeout. There’s a good sport and chance that in person B’s mind, the first place their mind goes is, oh, you always do this. This is how you get all of talking about the things that’s important to me.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, and that could be true. There could be historical truth to that. Maybe it’s happened sometimes, maybe it’s happened a million times, maybe it’s happened no times. There’s a moving target, constellation of truth, right, to any of these stories, and it could. Be true or is often true that when someone has a reaction like that, myself included, when I have one of those automatic story generators that goes, oh, this is how you get out of talking to me about something that’s important to me and uncomfortable for you.

If I were to have that thought, my reflection in the sober light of day, so to speak, is. Oh, that’s probably not so much about my history with that person. That’s probably about my history with lots of people or my family of origin, right? Is that I believe that people are always trying to get out of talking to me about the things that matter to me.

And so I’m very sensitized to the idea of somebody’s trying to get away from me when I wanna talk about something that’s important to me, and it could be true in this relationship as well. But it might not be true. Or maybe it’s been true a couple times, but that doesn’t make it always true, and I think it’s easy for us to get distracted and lose sight of what we’re trying to get done.

Because imagine for a second that you and person B, whoever this is, and your partner, whatever, you’re having this discussion and. Your partner calls for a timeout or says, I need a minute, right? And in your head you go, I go. The other person says, oh, you always do this. This is what you do to get outta talking about what’s important to me.

When you’re uncomfortable and you don’t wanna talk about something, right? All of a sudden that’s become the issue. The issue is no longer the thing you were talking about. Now we’ve created a secondary issue about what you always do, about things that are important to me, and now, whatever the hell the topic was, right, doesn’t matter anymore because we’ve now shifted the anger or the attention or the focus from this, whatever the original thing was to the new thing about what you always do when we’re fighting.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yes. Yeah, right. Thinking about everything that was in the closet, all the things come out then. Yeah. Oh, you always do that? Well, you always do this, and I didn’t do it this time.

Lindsey Carnick: Yeah. And we get so far afield of, again, the original presenting topic. Whatever that was. You said you’d make dinner and you didn’t.

I felt you, whatever. We’re no longer talking about dinner. Now we’re talking about what you always do, about how you always try and get out of talking to me about which again may be true and if that needs to be addressed, then it needs to be addressed. But that’s not originally what we were talking about.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah. Okay. So I’m hearing this is like along with the physical sensations, knowing what my. Stories are, especially if they’re like regular, consistent stories that might go through my head that can help me. No. Like, okay, yes, this is my reaction, but I could just, I don’t know, put that to the side right here for a moment and stay focused on what was the original thing that I actually wanted to address with my partner.

Lindsey Carnick: Yes, and I think there’s a lot to be taken away from what you just said in the sense that, let’s just say what you just described happens, right? You’re talking about topic A, who didn’t do dinner. Whatever, right? And then your partner calls for time out and you have the reaction, oh, this is what you always do to not talk to me.

And that’s a really interesting moment for you to go, oh, this is something I need to like table and definitely bring up. Like this is something that needs to be talked about. Because the fact that I just had that thought means that one way or another, there’s something there for me. This is not a true false referendum, but clearly it’s.

Bothering me, and that’s not what we’re talking about right now. So we gotta keep our eye on the ball of what we’re talking about right now and not introduce this new wild card element of what you always do. That couldn’t be further from this discussion, but we should definitely have that discussion at some point.

It’s not about stuffing those feelings or trying to pretend you’re. Not angry about that. It’s about just recognizing that is not the subject at hand. And if you go down that road, you’re gonna complicate the subject at hand exponentially.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yes. And then I can see how it would be so hard for either, like it would feel like there’s no resolution to either of them because you’re there can’t be right there.

Lindsey Carnick: There cannot be.

Distinguishing Process Concerns from Topical Concerns

Lindsey Carnick: Because we just conflated two things that are virtually unrelated because one is about process. One is about my experience of how you show up in arguments or my perception of how you do this thing in arguments. That’s a process, a complaint, right? Or a process concern versus a topical concern about what you do or don’t do with the garbage, or I don’t know, whatever, right?

We do not wanna confuse process concerns for topical concerns that muddies the waters tremendously.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Honestly, I’m thinking that could be like a whole nother podcast episode, like process concerns versus topical concerns. But I’m hearing don’t put them together. Keep ’em separate.

Lindsey Carnick: A good way to think about this is imagine being in a country where you don’t speak the language.

Okay, and you’re doing your best to order off a menu. The wait staff is not gonna stop and correct your accent because the point is, what do you want off this menu? Yeah. They’re they’re not gonna be like, you shouldn’t said it, they’re not gonna correct you. They’re gonna be like, so was it the chicken or the steak?

They need your order. This is not the time to talk about accents and phrasing and delivery and work choice. That makes all humanly possible.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah, because it’s not the goals of the interaction.

Lindsey Carnick: Right. Yeah. Now if you’re to expand the analogy, if your accent and word choice is so inappropriate that it’s confusing the issue, then that’s something that also needs to be addressed, but it needs to be addressed as a process concern, again, not as a topic concern.

How you make requests of your partner is different than the concern about the garbage itself.

The Importance of Clear Communication

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: And so I’m thinking these are some really concrete skills that people could work towards.

Lindsey Carnick: Absolutely. And I think it’s so daunting for people sometimes because they get to this place where they’re like and pass. And it’s like, actually, I mean, possibly, but often skills are so, so, so learnable, right? And if you can have a little bit of optimism that everybody has presumed positive intent, that people wanna be good partners, that people wanna meet, each other’s needs, that people care. And if they’re not doing that, it’s because they don’t know how or because they have some assumptions or something like that.

And those are all things that people can work through really. Quite handily, quite frankly, especially skills. We’re learning machines. We’re absolute learning machines, and part of my experience is that in many cases, not all cases, but in many cases. What inhibits people from learning new skills is a lack of clarity about what it is the other person wants, because people get hyper-focused on what they don’t want.

They’ll tell people over and over. Don’t do it like that. I hate it when you do that, but that’s like walking into Baskin Robbins where they have 31 flavors and saying, don’t gimme chocolate.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yes. ’cause they still don’t know which one you want.

Lindsey Carnick: Yeah. They still don’t know what you want. And this is an anecdotal observation, but I don’t know if it’s a fear of being the dreaded high maintenance or a fear of being the dreaded picky.

Or what, but we seem to be absolutely allergic to spelling out for people what it is we want, but then we seem to expect them to do what we want. They should just magically know out of 31 flavors, which flavor you want and what kind of cone cup, right? How many scoops, toppings, all of the things. And then they don’t know, and we just stand there and yell at them.

How dare you give me a double dip of mint chocolate chip in a cup. That’s not what I wanted. Right. And this person is like, well, there were 5 billion possible combinations I could have picked from Go figure. I got the wrong one. Right. Yeah. And so many of us are just. LOA to be specific and clear and communicative about what it is that we want and that sets our partners up for failure with us.

And if there’s one thing I think that stuck with me about the global work of what it means to be in a partnership, and I can’t remember who said this as somebody much smarter than myself said, the goal is to set your partner up for success with you. Only you have the information that they need to be successful with you.

You are the sole keeper of that information and until you give it to them, they don’t have it until you say, I would like a single scoop of moose tracks with the rainbow sprinkles and in a cup, so on. So once over, that’s how they get that information.

And it is not a one shot deal. And so when we withhold that information from our partners, either because we have a sense that they should know, which is a whole other like romantic ideal, that is useless, right? That they mystically should know what you want, especially after X number of years. No, and and not to mention we’re constantly evolving. Exactly.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: It’s like the things that I want today are not the things that I want when I first met my husband.

Lindsey Carnick: Exactly. And if we have this fear of spelling it out for people, that makes us seem high maintenance or like picky.

On the contrary, this is why people love Christmas lists, because people want to get something they want. And so it’s really fun to put down on a Christmas list, I want blank and then get it. Yeah. And the fact that there’s no mystery because you put it on your list. In no way diminishes people’s delight that they got what they wanted.

Right? Yeah. But somehow when it comes to like relationships, we’re like, oh, I want you to guess at it. That’s so much better. Why? And why do you expect people to get it right? Like that’s nonsense.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah, I’m just liking all the things that you’re saying because I’m thinking that’s another skill that somebody could work on listening to this episode is how do I set my partner up for success by being overly clear and overly communicative and gleeful about it

Lindsey Carnick: Really gleeful about it, as opposed to this like, well, I don’t wanna be high maintenance, but you know, like, yeah, no, no, no, no. Your partner will be delighted. And if you have a hard time with this, if this is something that you bristle at, you can practice on low stakes things like, and you can tell your partner, this is what you’re doing.

And it’s like a hilarious exercise, right? And you can joke about practicing being high maintenance or practicing being picky. And then you can be like, all right, here’s the game. I’m gonna have you make me a sandwich. I’m gonna spell out from step. A to Z, including how I want it cut like on the diagonal or like down the middle into a halves or like, you know, the quarters like a little kid or crusts off or crus on or whatever.

You’re like, I’m gonna practice with a big smile on my face telling you exactly what it is that I want on this stupid sandwich, right? Yeah. And I’m gonna practice being gleefully, communicative, and assertive about my wants and needs when it comes to this sandwich, because that’s low stakes. No. Is self-consciousness pretty low generally when it comes to the sandwich toppings?

Yeah. And then we can sort of like work our way up to being very clear with people about what we want and need, whether it’s in an interaction or a repair process, or what we want and need for connection. Or what we want and need for support that makes us feel supported. Right? These are very important things that are not necessarily intuitive and God loved the legacy of love languages, which is a really helpful concept.

It’s just a little broad brushed, right, because usually people have some more specifics than quality time right there. There’s usually very specifics If you go, my partner knows I like quality time. Okay. That’s pretty broad category and they’re going to be more successful with you if you spell out.

You know what I would love? I would love it if you planned an outing for us. I would like it to be a daytime outing because quite frankly, by the end of the day, I’m. Nuked. There’s just don’t even pass 5:00 PM and it feels like a chore, not a fun thing. So I would like a lunchtime activity. I would like you to take the initiative of finding somebody to watch the kids, and I would like you to plan one activity that’s like structured and one that’s unstructured. And that would really make me feel good.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah. I love it. I was just thinking about the quality time because my husband and I have had that exact sort of conversation because he’ll be like, cool, let’s play video games together. And I’ll be like, Hm. Uh, no, that’s not the quality time that I want. Not it, not it, right?

So I’m thinking there’s so much that people could take from this episode already, but I’m thinking like if there was one thing that you were like, oh, everybody listening, this is what I want you to have, what would that be?

Assuming Positive Intent in Relationships

Lindsey Carnick: In many relationships, folks have lost sight of the assumption that you’re on the same team, and it can certainly feel like you’re not.

And that is understandable and empathized, especially when things get difficult and there are difficult times in life and difficult times in relationships and huge stressors and tragedies and suffering and all kinds of things that happen to people individually, collectively, as a couple, as a family, in every iteration in between.

And as people are doing their level best to try and cope with being human and going through difficult things, they’re doing the best they can. And sometimes in the midst of all that, it is understandable that people start questioning the teammanship of their partner. They start to feel like I’m on this side of the net and you’re on that side of the net.

And if we can start to try and imagine, just imagine the premise of being on the same team. If we can start to think about a beach volleyball team of two, right? A two person beach volleyball team. Sometimes in the course of a game, your beach volleyball partner is gonna accidentally kick sand in your eyes.

They’re gonna accidentally elbow you in the face. They’re gonna accidentally trip you. They might accidentally spike the ball into your head and a million other iterations of accidental. This is what happens when the two of you are sliding around in the sand and when your teammate accidentally elbows you in the face, of course that hurts and you can be hurt, and that’s legit. Or they kick sand in your eyes or all of those things. The question is not is your hurt legitimate or not?

Metaphors for Teamwork in Relationships

Lindsey Carnick: Of course it is, and you should be cared for and reassured and all of those things, and also it can make a tremendous difference if you think of this person as a teammate who in pursuing the same goal as you.

You’re both trying to get the ball over the net. Right elbowed you in the face and it’s regrettable, but you’re on the same team and it doesn’t make it okay that your face hurts or that you’ve got a black eye. That’s all important. But try and remember that they’re still on your team and they were trying to get the ball over the net just like you are.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Yeah, I like that. It’s almost like a good story that I can hold on to that I can try to remind myself of.

Lindsey Carnick: Yeah. And if you are the one who accidentally elbowed your beach volleyball partner in the face or kick sand in their eye, take the time knee. Oh, I, oh my gosh. Oh, let me help you. I’m so sorry. I feel terrible that happened.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s okay. Yeah, of course. Your face hurts. I know like you’re not admitting culpability by attending to the other person and acknowledging their pain. You’re taking care of your teammates, whether they slipped on the sand and fell of their own motion and space, or whether you accidentally knocked them out of the way they’re hurting.

And what teammates do is care for each other when they’re hurting, regardless of whether it was caused by their own actions or your actions accidentally, whatever, right? Sometimes you’re gonna make the wrong call. You’re gonna leap for the wrong shot they had the shot you’re gonna get in the way and smack ’em in the face when you should have stayed back, right?

It’s gonna happen in the course of being teammates, and our responsibility is to try, try, try. Even when like we really got elbowed in the face, hard to remember that we’re on the same team and that doesn’t make it okay that you got elbowed in the face, but it’s a lot different than all of a sudden looking in that person and wondering if they’re supposed to be on the other side of the net.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: I really like your metaphors because I feel like they’re funny, but they’re also really easy to relate to and be like, oh yeah, that makes total sense. So thank you for sharing that.

Connecting with Lindsey Carnick

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: And I’m thinking there might be people listening to this episode who are, maybe they’re in Colorado, which is where you are.

Lindsey Carnick: I’m based in Colorado. I’m licensed in 10 states,

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: so maybe they’re in one of the 10 states that you’re licensed in and they’re like, oh gosh, I wanna work with Lindsay. How could they connect with you and work with you and find you?

Lindsey Carnick: Oh, you can find me on my website at onwardpsychservices.com.

There’s a contact us page. I have a phone number you can call me. I answer that. Those rectangles make calls. It’s craziest thing. So you can call me, you can send me an email. I’m also. Fairly active on Instagram. I like to make these little practical, tactical coping videos about once a week that I put out, and they’re super fun and I really enjoy doing that.

So Instagram and my website are the best ways to find me.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky: Okay, great. And so we’ll have links to that in the show notes in case anybody wants to just easily like click from the show notes to find you. And yeah. Lindsay, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Lindsey Carnick: Oh, it was my absolute pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for doing the work you’re doing.

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