A Veterans Journey towards Self Forgiveness with Bob Taylor

Episode Summary of “A Veterans Journey towards Self Forgiveness with Bob Taylor”

Welcome to the Communicate & Connect Podcast, where we explore the profound journeys of healing and self-discovery. In episode 40, titled “A Veterans Journey Toward Self-Forgiveness with Bob Taylor,” we are privileged to host Bob Taylor, a distinguished former Major in the United States Air Force. Bob’s narrative is not just a personal recount but a beacon of hope and guidance for many veterans and their families navigating the challenging transition from military to civilian life.

Join host Elizabeth Polinsky, a seasoned marriage and mental health counselor, as she delves into Bob’s experiences flying combat missions during Operation Desert Storm and the ensuing personal battle with mental health challenges, including PTSD, depression, and anxiety. Bob candidly shares how these experiences led him to embark on a six-year research journey, culminating in his insightful book, “From Service to Success.” This episode unpacks the critical role of self-forgiveness and gratitude as pivotal elements in the healing process for veterans. Bob discusses practical steps and strategies for mental well-being, emphasizing the importance of seeking help, improving sleep habits, and nurturing relationships.

Guest Speaker Bio – “Bob Taylor”

Bob Taylor, a native of Michigan, has seamlessly blended a life of military service and entrepreneurial endeavor. A graduate of Michigan State University, he began his career as a B-52 Navigator in the Air Force, serving with distinction during Operation Desert Storm. Following his active duty, Bob returned to his Midwestern roots, leveraging his skills to embark on a successful career in the medical device industry.

His journey led him to co-found several companies in Kalamazoo, Michigan, while concurrently serving in the Air Force Reserves as a KC-135 Navigator and later as an Air Force Academy Liaison officer. With nearly two decades of military service, Bob transitioned to leading Alliant Healthcare Products as CEO, continuing his commitment to innovation and leadership in the healthcare sector.

You can check out his book called “From Service to Success“.

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Episode Transcript for “A Veterans Journey towards Self Forgiveness with Bob Taylor”

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:00:00]:
This podcast is sponsored by Communicate and Connect Counseling, where we have a team of therapists who provide individual, couples, and family therapy services, all tailored to meet the needs of military and veteran families. To learn more about our services, visit www.communicateandconnect.com.

Welcome back to the Communicate and Connect podcast. You’re listening to episode 40, A Veteran’s Journey Towards Self Forgiveness with Bob Taylor. I’m really excited to have a guest on our podcast today. He’s a former major in the Air Force and his name’s Bob Taylor and he’s here to tell us all about self forgiveness and this book that he recently wrote. So Bob, tell us just a little bit about you and this book.

Bob Taylor [00:01:09]:
Well, Liz, first, thank you for the invitation. It’s great to be with you and I’m looking forward to learning a little bit more about you and your audience as we talk. My background is I’m a Midwestern Michigan guy, went to Michigan State University and my senior year I decided to join the Air force as a B52 Navigator and went through officers training school and navigator training and ended up being stationed at Griffiths Air Force Base in Rome, New York.

And in the last year that I was there, we deployed over to Diego Garcia and was part of Operation Desert storm and flew 11 combat missions from there. And about a year after that, after we returned from Desert Storm, I decided to leave the Air Force active duty and my best friend in college was a mechanical engineer at a medical device company in Kalamastoo, Michigan.

And so it gave me a chance to bring my family back to Michigan and we planted roots there and raised my family there and actually started several medical device companies along that journey and got back into the Air Force in the Reserves as a KC135 Navigator. Eventually finished up just shy of 18 years as an Air Force Academy Liaison officer. And most recently I’m the CEO of a company called Alliant Healthcare Products and we sell medical devices.

Bob Taylor [00:02:57]:
I think over the course of the time we’ve sold about a $750 million of healthcare products into the VA and Department of Defense hospitals. And most recently I became an author and decide to share some of my personal stories and what turned out to be about a six year research project in helping veterans really learn about themselves and how to transition from their military service into civilian life. The book’s called From Service to Success.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:03:33]:
Yeah, wow, that’s so cool to hear you talk about all the different experiences you’ve had. You’ve really kind of moved around with different things and your Book From Service to Success. I know we’re talking a lot about self forgiveness today. Is that what the book’s about?

“Veterans’ Self-Forgiveness and Healing Journey”

Bob Taylor [00:03:51]:
Well, self forgiveness is one of the things that veterans need to learn about how to heal from their experiences. And what I’m learning, you know, writing the book, I thought was going to be the hard part. It’s actually, it’s actually after writing it and going out and talking to people, and I’ve learned a lot from veterans and their family members about aspects of the book that are, are maybe more meaningful to them.

And so there’s different aspects on what veterans need to learn. I, I always say people need to go through a boot camp or officers training school to kind of get programmed to be ready to serve in the military. Well, when they’re done, if it was boot camp, they need kind of a reboot camp. And what I call it is kind of repurposing the, their, their mindset for their relationships, for their dreams and aspirations for healing and how to achieve their, their best life. The subtitle of the book is New Mission, New Purpose and A Great Journey.

Bob Taylor [00:05:18]:
A New Journey to a Great Life. So the self forgiveness is one really important aspect of that whole new journey.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:05:28]:
Yes, I’m following. So the book is really about that transition.

Bob Taylor [00:05:33]:
It’s about transition and meeting veterans, where they’re at. So I just had a conversation with a gal that runs the Michigan veteran home, and these are veterans that are kind of nearing the end of life. And she said, well, maybe this isn’t really for them, but what I’m finding is that no matter where they’re, where they are in their life, they need to find this self forgiveness, this reconciliation.

There’s always a time to heal and to heal your relationships and to. Even if it’s at the very end of your life, there’s a, there’s a purpose that you can find. So whether you’re just getting out or whether you’re way late in your life.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:06:34]:
Yeah, I like how you’re connecting self forgiveness with healing. And so I know there’s so much more in your book, but this is one of the things that gets covered is, is how self forgiveness can be related to your own healing. And I know on my. So like, I’m a mental health counselor, I, I’m a marriage counselor.

I actually didn’t tell you that before we started our training, our, our call, but I am working with people’s mental health all day in the context of their marriages. But often I want to say, I would say pretty consistently over the Past three years. Well, I’ve. So I’ve been working as a marriage counselor in private practice for about three and a half years.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:07:26]:
Before that, I worked for the VA hospital.

Bob Taylor [00:07:29]:
Okay.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:07:30]:
And I was a trauma therapist for them at the VA hospital. And. But even over the last three and a half years in private practice, I would say about 75% of the couples that I work with are either active duty military. Like one, one or both of them is in the military, or they’re a veteran.

Bob Taylor [00:07:54]:
And that’s interesting.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:07:55]:
Yeah, I love it. This is like my who. Who I love to work with. And I come from a dual military family, so there’s like, all sorts of stuff there. But depression and anxiety are big parts of. And of course, PTSD at times are big parts of what is. Is going on in the individual. But also a couple, sort of like the couple is trying to navigate around an anxiety disorder or a PTSD or depression, even chronic pain.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:08:36]:
These different aspects of mental health and.

Combat-Induced Nightmares Return After Years”

Bob Taylor [00:08:39]:
A sense of being lost, living without, you know, a higher purpose. The. You know. So my background to kind of add in is shortly after I returned home after combat, I started having these nightmares. And they lasted for about six months, and then they went away. And about 16 years later, they came back and with a vengeance. I don’t know really what triggered them, but, you know, I got to the point where I was afraid to sleep because the nightmares were so terrible. And so I started, you know, a little tidy at night, maybe 1, 2, or 8.

Bob Taylor [00:09:34]:
And I very quickly got behind the eight ball and was not living the best version of myself as a person, as a husband, and as a father. And it was at that point where I decided that I needed help and got to the va and I told my therapist, I said, I will do everything that you ask me. I will do every exercise. I will do every. Everything that you ask me. I will be your best patient. And I think I lived up to that promise. And so I still talk to this therapist.

Bob Taylor [00:10:21]:
It’s been 10 years now. It’s never something that you just kind of get a cure and move on. I think I’m always learning about coping skills. And so that’s a lot of this book is sharing my own personal journey through that. And so it’s not a comfortable thing sharing this in public.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:10:46]:
Yes.

Bob Taylor [00:10:47]:
Right.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:10:47]:
And even on this podcast right now, I was thinking you’re. You’re being so vulnerable to share all of this with me, but also everyone who’s going to listen to this, and I think I just wanted to say thank you. Well, for being willing to do that.

Bob Taylor [00:11:03]:
You know, if I had a broken arm, you. You would notice my sling, and you’d probably give me some empathy, and that would be about it. There’s a stigma that goes along with mental health, and I didn’t choose to start having nightmares, as it turned out. I suffered from depression and still do on occasion, and I didn’t choose that. And no one does. And it doesn’t. You know, I. I’m a CEO of a company.

Bob Taylor [00:11:40]:
I have great relationships. I’ve been able to succeed for the most part. I kept all this from anybody for a long time.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:11:49]:
Yeah.

Bob Taylor [00:11:50]:
And. But what I decided is when I wrote this book, I knew that I was going to have to talk about this and that I was going to have to kind of share my own journey. And what I’m finding is it’s being reflected back to me, the appreciation.

And I talked to a mother over in va, Battle Creek, whose son is struggling, and she was able to open up a little bit and share a little bit about her son. And I’ve had other veterans kind of share a little bit, and so maybe I can just start a dialogue. And. And that’s the whole purpose behind writing this book and trying to get into hands of veterans.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:12:37]:
Yeah. I really appreciate your approach to that. When. When I’m thinking about it as you’re. As you’re sharing, it sort of removes some of that stigma. It. If you share about it, it gives other people permission to talk about their experiences, and it also tends to help people feel like they’re not alone. I was just having this conversation with someone today.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:13:06]:
Like, pain, painful things are painful, and. And the pain is really painful, but. But it’s worse if I feel like I’m in pain and I’m alone in the pain. And to be able to open up a dialogue around these things, I think removes that piece. Of course, there’s still the pain of being in the pain, but I’m not in the pain alone.

Veterans’ Struggles: You’re Not Alone

Bob Taylor [00:13:34]:
Right. What’s interesting about this is that there’s roughly 22 million veterans in the US and about half of those veterans struggle to some degree. And so you think about all these veterans saying that they’re alone. There’s 11 million alone veterans, you know, to kind of put it that way. So they’re not alone.

There are things that they can do to kind of recognize everyone has their own trauma, everyone has their own story. It’s not to say everyone’s the same, everyone is different, but there are so many similarities of how they feel how they kind of have written a story that puts even more pressure on themselves. And I think we have to recognize that we’re not alone.

Bob Taylor [00:14:42]:
You’re not weak if you ask for help. You’re not weak if you reach out to other people. It’s actually a sign of strength. And the whole name of the game here is to achieve something great for yourself and your family. The, the. Probably the single biggest regret I have of my life is that for whatever reason it took me over 16 years to get healthy help. It’s made that much difference in my life and in my marriage and in my relationship with my kids and with other people. And I wish I would have started that sooner.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:15:27]:
Yeah, I can really, really understand that. I can really understand that. I’m. I’m just thinking right now and I’m. My brain is like going in a few different directions. You know, I think I was thinking, you know, it does. It has such a big impact on relationships. If, if I’m struggling in some way, doesn’t just impact me.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:15:57]:
It does impact my family and my kids because we’re all so in sync with each other. We’re all in tune with each other in such a deep way. Way. And then I start thinking about your, your comment on it’s. It’s not weak to ask for help. That’s certainly the case with, with like going for therapy. But often when I work with couples, I’ll see I can’t let my spouse into what’s going on with me because I don’t want my spouse to think that I’m weak.

Bob Taylor [00:16:34]:
Right.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:16:34]:
And it even comes up in, in that way. But I know often the spouses are really craving to be let in, to be able to kind of shoulder share the burden in some way.

“Donate Books to Support Veterans”

Bob Taylor [00:16:50]:
So one of the things that I’m hoping as people I have these programs of buy a book and donate Some, whether it’s one, five or 10 books, people can go to patriotpromise.org and donate these books. And my hope is, is that a spouse and a veteran or a mother and a child veteran or vice versa, they can read the book together. Because there’s what this mother in Battle Creek told me. She said, I’m going to read it before I give it to him so that I can kind of see things that I’ve seen in my son.

And I think if people read this book together, that’s what they’re going to do in some of these group homes and they’re going to use it in group therapy, is use it to Say, oh, yeah, that, that’s something that I experienced because I shared stories from other veterans, not just my own. So people can, can maybe they can feel more comfortable sharing if they read it together.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:18:08]:
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I love that. And so then thinking, I’m thinking about how does self forgiveness tie into all of this, since that’s like our topic today. So can you help? No, that’s Brid Gap.

Bob Taylor [00:18:24]:
Yeah, absolutely. So first you have to. There’s a starting point, right? So how do I get started? And one of the first things that I recommend is that people start practicing gratitude. And that’s in a, in a marriage or relationship. What I’ve noticed is if I’m, if I start creating a mental list of all the things that my wife is doing that bothers me, it’s more about me than it is about her.

It’s more about my mental state than it is about what she’s actually doing. And so I can recognize now if I’m making this mental list, I’m kind of holding her accountable for things that probably aren’t on her. And so we need to shift towards this gratitude, just being grateful for the things.

Gratitude Mindset: Embrace Self-Forgiveness

Bob Taylor [00:19:23]:
And all of a sudden you start to see in people the good instead of seeing the negative. So I always try and start with the, with the mindset of gratitude, and that just opens your mind to something new. Then the next kind of layer of the onion to peel is this self forgiveness. And what happens is people that are hard on themselves will write a story about how they should have done something to prevent someone from being injured, or they did something and it caused this person to be injured.

And a lot of those are false narratives. But people can hold on to those for decades. They can say, if I wouldn’t have gone to the store, I would have been home and I would have prevented that bad thing from happening. Or if I would have gone on that mission, my buddy would have stayed back and I would have been the one that was shot.

Bob Taylor [00:20:39]:
And veterans tend to do this at a really high skill level. They tend to blame themselves for things that they’re really not accountable for. So that’s why the self forgiveness is so important. We have to let things go. Forgiveness isn’t. When you forgive someone, it’s not for the person that you’re forgiving. It’s really for yourself. It’s to let go of something.

“Benefits of Practicing Self-Forgiveness”

Bob Taylor [00:21:11]:
And when, when you forgive yourself, you happen to be the benefactor of that two times over. You get the, the grace of being forgiven, but you also get the, the benefit of forgiving yourself. And so I didn’t really, I’ve just had conversations about this lately and I think one of the ways to practice self forgiveness is you start with like a little internal quiet confession where you admit that you have wronged someone or you’ve wronged yourself in thoughts, words and deeds.

And we say this at church by what we have done and sometimes by what we’ve left undone. And I haven’t loved people around me like I should. And so if you can start with that and then you specifically think about the thing that you feel that you did wrong, you bring that up either to yourself or you can write it on a, on a piece of paper. If you write on a piece of paper, you can put it in a bowl and you can light it on fire. And that has a very positive feeling to see that kind of burn and just turn into ashes.

Bob Taylor [00:22:47]:
But to confess to yourself what it is you’re holding yourself accountable for and then saying, I forgive myself. Just say those words, I forgive myself for the things that I believe that I did wrong. And it’s not going to be just a one time thing.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:23:15]:
Yeah, I was just thinking this is going to be like a practice, like how people develop a yoga practice or a meditation practice. It’s going to have to be a practice where I practice going through these steps to try to forgive myself is what it sounds like.

Bob Taylor [00:23:34]:
And that’s what I’ve tried to do in the book is outline these steps of just kind of one at a time. I, I didn’t want to just write a book that laid out all the problems. And you know, I’m not a super athlete that learned how to run a, you know, an iron man. And that’s my success story. It’s more a journey of self forgiveness, overcoming some of these mental health issues and being committed to trying to live the best life that I can.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:24:14]:
Yeah, that is a big journey. You know, I, I realize you were like, oh, I didn’t do an ironman. But I think for a lot of the people that I have worked with in the past, an Ironman might be easy compared to like the process that you’re describing. And for the people that I’ve worked with who did have, have ptsd specifically, who had a lot of self blame and, and guilt around not being able to save someone or be able to prevent something traumatic from happening. And I think that, I think a lot of them would say I’d rather have an iron man, you know.

Bob Taylor [00:24:56]:
Absolutely. And you know, when I said I will do everything And I’ll be your best patient. It was. It was work, you know, going through this. It’s. It’s hard work, but it. The benefits are so worth it. The one thing that I suffered from, and I’m sure a lot of your patients do, is the irritability and the anger management.

Bob Taylor [00:25:24]:
Right. And I describe it like everyone has someone that says the wrong thing at the wrong time. You know, if. If you’re part of a larger family, someone in that larger family can irritate you. I think that’s normal.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:25:41]:
Yeah. Everybody has this.

Bob Taylor [00:25:43]:
Yes. Everyone knows what that’s like. The. What I experienced in my irritability is, what if everyone said the wrong thing at the wrong time? What if everyone irritated you? And it. It sounds like, well, that’s my choice. And it really wasn’t at the time. I don’t know why it was like that. It just.

Bob Taylor [00:26:12]:
That’s what it felt like. It felt like everyone was. Was saying the wrong things, and. And it felt harmful. It felt like I was a victim of what people were saying, and it made me want to. To be angry in return. Well, that’s not a good way to go through life, you know, blaming yourself for something that you could be forgiven for. Seeing things in a negative way when you can be grateful instead, and being irritable and angry when you can be happy and fulfilled.

Bob Taylor [00:26:49]:
And it really is. It. It’s that kind of a difference.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:26:56]:
Yeah. And I was just thinking, like, I’m imagining that person who’s in that place that you were in before you got with the therapist at the va. Like, if that person was listening to you talk right now, they might be like, this is crazy, you know, or some. Some sort of reaction of like, there’s. I can’t really have that maybe, or. Or what are you talking about? That. That it could be so night and day like that.

Bob Taylor [00:27:29]:
So when I first went in, I had a sleep study done, and my legs were moving 270 times per hour.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:27:39]:
Wow. Yeah. Wow. Okay.

“PTSD Recovery: Importance of Sleep”

Bob Taylor [00:27:42]:
And so many times that was because I was having nightmares, because I was having just these movements. And that’s common with people with ptsd. And your mind, your mental capacity changes drastically when you’re not getting a good night’s sleep. And so that’s one of the other big parts of this healing process, is get some sleep. And I know that sounds like a.

A simple phrase to say, but there are some really beneficial things that happen when you get some sleep. Change your mindset, start practicing basic wellness things in a relatively short period of time. I would say in months people can start to see a significant difference and to the spouse’s benefit, they’ll see a changed person.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:28:40]:
Yes. What you’re saying is really important. I’m remembering like a psychologist that I worked with when I did work at the va and he was all about sleep. Like his stance was like, we should forget everything else almost. Let’s just focus on sleep. I’m exaggerating a little bit, but because.

Bob Taylor [00:29:02]:
I’ve heard that, I’ve heard that it’s the number, it’s the number one thing that they want to take care of through the va. So I can, I can believe that.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:29:11]:
Yeah. It has a huge impact on your mood. In fact, I was talking to somebody else a couple of months ago. People should probably not quote me on this because I’m going to get it wrong. But she was, she was telling me about a sleep book that she was reading and what she told me, which is very removed because I haven’t read the book and now I’m remembering what she told me that she remembered from the book.

So this may not be totally accurate, but I think she was saying that you have like twice the amount of anxiety the next day if you didn’t get enough sleep. And even if you got enough sleep that second night, the next day after that, you’d still have heightened anxiety because you didn’t get enough sleep the two days prior.

Bob Taylor [00:29:58]:
Yeah, there’s some cumulative sleep deprivation things I’ve never in my life been very good with. Sleep deprivation.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:30:08]:
Well, I don’t think anybody really is.

Bob Taylor [00:30:10]:
Yeah, yeah, they, some people can be doctors and go two nights without sleep or something like that. I’ve never been able to cope with that very well.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:30:22]:
Yeah, yeah. So I like that that’s included in your book because that does make a huge difference. If I could, if, if I could go back to the self forgiveness piece, it sounds like this was a really meaningful part of your journey. Do you mind describing a little bit of like how you came to more self forgiveness and, and how. So I’m thinking like, how other people might be able to do that too.

Faith’s Role in Self-Forgiveness

Bob Taylor [00:30:49]:
So we all make mistakes, we say hurtful things. You know, as a marriage counselor, I’m sure you’ve heard all the stories, but there are times in our lives when we’re not the best version of ourselves and we can do things and say things that are very hurtful to people or we can make a mistake in, in some of the actions that we take that have consequences to other people.

So I’m not certain that for me that I started practicing self forgiveness as much as that’s been part of my faith journey. So every week when I go to church, the very first thing that we do is confession and forgiveness. So that’s kind of where it’s come from me and I, I’m really sensitive to try not to press my religious beliefs onto other people. But there is a benefit to having faith and experiencing that forgiveness that, I mean, that’s the whole purpose of, of our faith.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:32:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think a lot of people, you know, not everyone is. Is faith based. I’m, I’m pretty open and honest that I’m not. But I also know that so many military couples are. I was just having a conversation with someone, someone else who’s going to be on the podcast and, and, and they asked me, they were like, well do you know the percentage of that? And then I had to go look it up and I, I’m struggling again with remembering exactly how much it was, but I want to say it was like 60 or 70%.

Bob Taylor [00:32:54]:
Yeah.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:32:55]:
The military population is faith based.

Bob Taylor [00:32:57]:
Okay. It’s. It used to be in the 80s. Oh.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:33:01]:
So it still could be because it’s.

Bob Taylor [00:33:05]:
No, it’s dropping off in, in the general population. So I actually think that it, that’s what the general population claims that about 60 some percent are. Are Chris self proclaimed Christians or religious.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:33:26]:
Yeah. So I think there will be people listening to this podcast who appreciate that take and how spirituality has been involved in your process of forgiveness. Because it’s, it is one thing for like a benevolent being to forgive me, but for me to be able to forgive myself is a whole nother task.

Bob Taylor [00:33:53]:
Right? That’s. That’s exactly right. And all I can say is that it’s worth the effort. It’s worth. All these things are just words. Right. Until we practice them to the point where they become beliefs or actions. And that’s the whole premise is the more we say certain things, we might be talking to someone else, but we’re also talking to our subconscious.

Bob Taylor [00:34:25]:
And that the, where the subconscious comes into play is these veterans that have these terrible stories that they don’t share. Outwardly, those stories are living in their subconscious. And when you, when people try and keep those feelings inside, they come out in nightmares, they come out in 270 leg movements per hour and they, they come out in, in more harmful ways. But if we can learn how to express those things, how to forgive ourselves, that’s where a deeper healing comes. And it. Where what it’s healing is our subconscious mind which controls so much of our happiness and things that we can experience in life.

Express & Practice Self-Forgiveness Tips

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:35:13]:
Yeah. So if I, if I could just repeat that there. It sounds like there are two important steps to that. One is not keeping it on the inside, but actually expressing and sharing it, which is in a lot of ways what you’re doing by being on podcasts like this, writing your book, having people use your book as a tool that can help generate conversations around these types of experiences. So getting it out.

And then the second step was, if I can rephrase what you said, it was about repeating how I want to be thinking. And you had sort of talked about, you know, we all have these stories or false narratives of blame or something like that that can be tied into what I am having a hard time forgiving myself for. But if I can practice, practice the self forgiveness over and over and over, then it can eventually turn into a belief versus for how long people may have practiced blaming themselves.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:36:25]:
The blame has become a belief through the practice of blaming themselves. But if they can practice self forgiveness, it might, it can eventually turn into a belief of Right. Self forgiveness.

Bob Taylor [00:36:39]:
Correct. It flips the script.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:36:41]:
Yeah, I like that phrase. Yeah. Well, I’m curious if, if you have any thoughts about how military spouses might be able to support their service members, especially like given your firsthand experience. I don’t know if there are things that looking back, you’re like, gosh, this would have been really helpful if my spouse could have done this, you know?

Bob Taylor [00:37:10]:
Yeah, well, I, I do think whether it’s this book or other books, having that time where you can sit and share stories together, read self improvement relationship books, could be love languages. Right. It could be, you know, anything where you’re just personally sitting together and sharing those stories and reflecting together is going to help in those relationships. The other thing that together I think the spouse and the military person, they need to be aware of certain things so that they can decide when should I go get help? You know, what are some. And if you don’t mind, I’ve got five.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:38:01]:
Yes.

Bob Taylor [00:38:01]:
Yeah, please, five things. And we’ve talked about a couple of them, but I think it would be good. So if you are a spouse or veteran and the veteran is not sleeping, they’re suffering from nightmares and the spouse is going to know if they’re moving too much at night. If that’s going on and they’re getting less sleep than they need, they need to go get help. There is help. There are sleep studies, are treatments. I was shocked that my nightmares could be reprogrammed to stop being nightmares and to be something positive.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:38:46]:
Yeah.

Seek Help for Life Struggles

Bob Taylor [00:38:47]:
And it, I don’t know how to explain it, but that happened. So I don’t suffer from nightmares anymore. If you are, if you’re drinking or self medicating just to cope with the challenges of your life, then you probably need to go get help. You know, if, if the reason for your drinking is to get through the day because of the challenges that you have, that’s probably an indication. Another one is if you’re homeless or if you fear that you’re going to lose your home.

And then regardless of your housing status, if you feel isolated, if you just feel this deep sense of isolation like you’re alone and you don’t know how to get through it, or if you’ve lost your home or you have lost your home, go get help or get your spouse some help. Your struggles are causing significant relationship challenges or you’re having trouble interacting with your co workers to the point where it’s hard for you to keep working. So if, if you, this, this is something where it’s hard to be self aware as much.

Bob Taylor [00:40:06]:
Right. So sometimes you do need a spouse that recognizes, hey, you’re always having trouble with your co workers and we’re having a lot of trouble in our marriage. Maybe it’s time to go get help. And maybe you start out together but that’s an indication for getting help. And then finally if someone is considering harming themselves or someone else, it’s an incredible number. I think many people know that on average 22 veterans die from suicide every day. And that’s a horrible number. But According to the CDC, something like 640 veterans attempt suicide every day.

Bob Taylor [00:40:56]:
1500 veterans plan their suicide each day and over 5500 veterans every day are thinking about suicide. And so if you’re one of those people that is considering self harm or taking your anger and the, as your irritability turns into greater and greater anger, if you’re thinking about harming someone, that’s the time to go get help. So any one of those five on their own is a reason for the spouse or for the veteran to, to try and work into some kind of mental health support.

Supporting Military Spouses: Navigating Uncertainty

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:41:45]:
Yeah, I, I’m glad you shared those because I think some of the military spouses that I come across, they’re not always sure. Like you know, they, they don’t necessarily want to be accusatory of their partner and they don’t want to cause a fight or cause conflict conflict or, or convey like something’s wrong with you? You know, they want to be supportive, but they’re also never really sure at what point should I be encouraging you to go to therapy. And so I’m glad that you included those. And I did not know those other statistics. You know, I knew the 22 per day, but those numbers are.

Bob Taylor [00:42:31]:
I thought it would be like, you know, twice as many people would.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:42:35]:
Yeah.

Bob Taylor [00:42:36]:
Attempt suicide. I was shocked at the number of people on a daily basis who are attempting suicide.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:42:45]:
Yeah. I’m still, like, taking it in. I think somber is like. I’m not sure if somber is an emotion. I’d have to, like, go look it up. But that’s like the feeling sort of shock.

Bob Taylor [00:42:58]:
There’s. There’s definitely a sadness with it.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:43:01]:
Yeah.

Bob Taylor [00:43:01]:
And the. The. It’s really one of the reasons that I wrote this book is so that maybe we can reach somebody, maybe this. This woman in Battle Creek can share some stories or share some thoughts with her son, and that causes them to. To seek help. And it’s just, you know, the early steps in a positive way to offset the early steps in a negative way.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:43:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and it only really takes one. Like, I’ve seen books spread like wildfire, you know, like, if. If I know of something and I share it with you, then you maybe will share it with the people that, you know who. Who might need the help. So I like what you’re doing with the book. I know we’re almost out of time.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:44:02]:
Do you have any sort of final thoughts or last takeaways or things that you want to share with the audience?

Bob Taylor [00:44:11]:
I would just share that, you know, through my own personal experiences. Life is not a straight line. Life can be cruel at times, but life can be wonderful. And for someone that served in the military, it is not the. The pinnacle of your life. There are great things. There are great possibilities that can come after military service. You went through the boot camp, the specialized training, the advanced training.

Post-Military Success: Discipline Keys

Bob Taylor [00:44:48]:
You experienced discipline, learned many things. Now you can take that. Those same practices of discipline, intellectual curiosity, fast learning, all those things that made that person successful in their military lives can be applied to great success in their post military lives. And if they will reach out, work with other people, try to find what it is that makes them happy, find a cause that is greater than themselves. If they can find a new passion in their life, great things can happen. And I. I guess that’s my. That’s my ultimate message in this.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:45:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that and thank you for being willing to share so much about your experiences and about the book and how other people maybe will be able to go through a similar process towards the healing and the self forgiveness. So I’m thinking people are going to want to read this book. Can you say a little bit about how people could find the book or purchase the book or things like that?

Bob Taylor [00:46:10]:
Sure. So the book will be available. It’s currently available as an ebook on Amazon. By the time this airs, I think the book will be available in all major bookstores, Amazon, Barnes and Noble and throughout the country. And they can also find it on patriotpromise.org and if they go to patriotpromise.org and order one, we automatically donate one to a veteran or they can donate an additional five or 10 books if that’s what they want to do. So patriotpromise.org or any of the other bookstores.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:46:54]:
Okay, great. And I will. I’ll include a link to patriotpromise.org in the show notes. So if people want to go buy a book or donate books, they can just go to the show notes and click the link straight from there.

Bob Taylor [00:47:09]:
Perfect.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:47:10]:
Yeah.

Bob Taylor [00:47:10]:
Wonderful.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:47:11]:
Well, thank you so much.

Bob Taylor [00:47:13]:
Yeah, I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you very much Liz.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:47:18]:
Me too.

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