Tips for LGBT Military Spouses

Episode Summary of “Tips for LGBT military spouses”

Welcome to a compelling and informative episode of the Communicate & Connect Podcast for Military Relationships, where host Elizabeth Polinsky, a dedicated military marriage counselor, opens up a dialogue about the multifaceted experiences of LGBT military spouses. In this episode, titled “Tips for LGBT Military Spouses,” Elizabeth is joined by the distinguished Dr. Katie McNamara, an Air Force social worker and social science researcher with a deep well of experience and expertise. Together, they navigate the historical and ongoing challenges faced by LGBT couples and families within the military—a topic of great importance and relevance.

Dr. McNamara provides a rich overview of the evolving policies and sociocultural dynamics that impact LGBT service members. Listeners will gain insights into the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and the fairly recent legalization of same-sex marriage at the federal level in 2015, which have shaped the lives of military families. Yet, despite these advancements, the conversation highlights the residual struggles that persist in the form of discrimination, identity disclosure anxieties, and finding supportive communities.

As they unpack the “mental math” that LGBT military personnel often engage in to determine safe spaces for identity disclosure, Elizabeth and Dr. McNamara emphasize the need for supportive networks. They explore the concept of “minority stress” and its implications for mental health, underscoring the importance of recognizing and combatting subtle forms of bias in professional and social settings.

This episode is not only a resource for LGBT military spouses seeking advice on nurturing resilient relationships but also for allies and advocates committed to fostering an inclusive environment. Filled with practical tips and heartfelt discussions, it’s an episode that promises to resonate with anyone interested in understanding the nuanced challenges faced by the LGBT community within the armed forces.

Guest Speaker Bio – “Dr. Katie McNamara”

Dr. Katie McNamara is a renowned social science researcher and public speaker, dedicated to making scholarly insights accessible to a broader audience. With her roots in central Indiana, Dr. McNamara’s academic journey led her to the dynamic city of Chicago, where she pursued higher education and completed a master’s program in social work. She gained invaluable experience during a year-long internship at the Department of Veterans Affairs, where she discovered her unique niche—combining social work with military service.

Intrigued by the prospect of blending her expertise in social work with a career in the military, Dr. McNamara enlisted in the United States Air Force. Her service, spanning over eight years, not only provided her with exceptional career opportunities but also offered competitive salaries and comprehensive health benefits, reinforcing her commitment to this unique path. This transformative decision allowed her to leverage her social work skills in a dynamic, results-oriented environment, making significant contributions to both her field and service members.

Dr. McNamara is passionate about sharing her research findings with diverse audiences, transcending the confines of academic journals. She regularly engages with public audiences through conferences and public-speaking engagements, transforming complex data into actionable insights. Her dedication to community service and knowledge dissemination has cemented her reputation as a thought leader in social science research.

For those seeking a dynamic expert in social work and military integration, Dr. Katie McNamara stands out as a beacon of innovation and advocacy, committed to bridging the gap between academia and real-world application. Connect with her to learn how her unique insights can benefit organizations and communities alike.

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Episode Transcript for “Tips for LGBT military spouses”

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:00:02]:
This podcast is sponsored by Communicate and Connect Counseling, where we have a team of therapists who provide individual, couples, and family therapy services, all tailored to meet the needs of military and veteran families. To learn more about our services, visit www.communicateandconnect.com.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:00:28]:
Welcome to the Communicate and Connect podcast for Milit Relationships with your host, Elizabeth Polinski, a military marriage counselor. If this is your first time listening to the Communicate and Connect podcast, please take a second to go, rate, review and subscribe to make sure you get all our future episodes. We also really want to know what it is you love about our podcast. And if for some reason you’re not loving it, we want to know that too, because we’re committed to providing the best quality content to help you improve your relationships. This is episode 19, tips for LGBT military spouses.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:01:14]:
Hey, I’m Liz and this is the Communicate and Connect podcast for military Relationships. I’m pretty excited because Today I have Dr. Katie McNamara. Did I pronounce your last name right?

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:01:28]:
That’s close enough.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:01:29]:
Close enough. Okay. And we’re going to talk a lot about LGBT couples and families who are in the military and some of the unique, I don’t know, struggles maybe that they might face being a military family. And so maybe we could just start off with. Do you want to introduce yourself?

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:01:51]:
Yes. Thank you so much for having me. This is a social science researcher’s dream is to be able to come and speak to a broader audience than just people who read peer reviewed journals, which is not a lot of people, and share what our data wants to say. So thank you for having me.

I been in the Air Force for about eight and a half years and I come from central Indiana originally and then moved to Chicago for college and my master’s in social work program and then decided after doing a year long internship at the va. And even I didn’t know that social workers could join the military and I heard that you could make a pretty decent salary and have great health insurance and I said, sign me up. Yes.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:02:45]:
Yeah.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:02:48]:
I am tired of having four jobs and making very little money. So yes, I went ahead and joined and been stationed in a number of places including overseas and I was super lucky to get a PhD slot.

So I was able to leave the operational Air Force for three years and just focus on doing research and was really fortunate to go to the University of Southern California where my dissertation advisors had already gotten a DOD grant, a Department of Defense grant to study the well being of LGBT service members. So super faithful that I was then able to Be involved and involved in data collection and analysis and publishing some really fun papers from that data.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:03:37]:
Yeah, that’s so amazing. So you went into the Air Force after your master’s and you went in as a social worker and then the Air Force like had you go to get your PhD. That’s what I’m understanding.

Balancing Clinical Work, Research, Teaching

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:03:52]:
So I did four years of clinical work where I was seeing, you know, 5.5 patients a day like they have us do. And that was, that was incredible experience. So treating service members and their families for whatever mental health concerns they were going through at the time or drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence. And then, you know, after several years of doing full time clinical work, sometimes you want to broaden your scope a little. And I definitely reached that point. So yeah, now I’m lucky to do part time clinical work, part time research, part time teacher. The perfect mix.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:04:34]:
Yeah. So you get to do all of those things in your role as a social worker for the Air Force now.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:04:40]:
Yes, yes. So as a social worker you’re able to do. To teach. So now I’m, I work for a family medicine residency program. So I teach the medical residents behavioral sciences. I like to say, I don’t know if they like when I say this, but I teach them to be many therapists. So that. Because we know that most people who would benefit from specialty mental health care will never go, but they will go to primary care.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:05:09]:
So I want to make sure that their primary care providers are aware of brief interventions for a number of behavioral health issues. It’s really a good gig. And then able to do research on the side as well.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:05:23]:
Yeah, that is amazing. So you end up teaching like a primary care doctor, maybe nurses and stuff. Also how to do little. I like your, your phrase of mini therapy. Yeah. Because you’re right. So many people don’t want to go, go see a therapist. I think that’s why, that’s one of the reasons I’m enjoying being a couples therapist right now.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:05:49]:
And I just, within the past couple of months got credentialed with Tricare and so now a lot of people can come see me and I can work with the, you know, the diagnosis, the mental health diagnosis can be on the spouse and the service member can still, you know, we can do sort of like this conjoint therapy through couples work, which is really nice because yeah, a lot of people won’t go to see someone in mental health.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:06:19]:
Yes. And especially during all my years as a full time clinician, I think on the outside folks assume that most people come in for mental health care, for post traumatic stress disorder, or, you know, something combat related. And again and again, at least anecdotally, my patients were there for troubling marriages. So I’m super grateful for people like you who are steeped in best practices for helping military couples.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:06:48]:
Thanks. I can kind of relate to that. That seemed to be what I saw with the veterans that I worked with when I worked at the VA before we moved to the Norfolk area, that so many people, how they would end up was due to something going on in the relationships. Yeah, absolutely. Well, speaking of relationships, maybe I’ll use this to kind of orient us a little bit. And I was wondering if you have thoughts about maybe what unique things someone who is LGBT might be experiencing as a couple or a family in the military.

Understanding LGBT: Key Terms Explained

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:07:29]:
Yes, absolutely. So for any listeners who aren’t familiar with the term, LGBT stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender. And the way I teach my daughter, who’s five, what these words mean is lesbian and gay people are attracted to, love, and usually marry somebody who is also a boy or who is also a girl. And then bisexual people will date, love, and marry girls or boys.

And then transgender people are generally folks who identify with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth. So the LGBT community is what we call a big tent community. You know, we’ve added many more letters to the end of that, and even Q for queer sometimes. We’ll sometimes also use the terminology of a sexual or gender minority, meaning we know that LGB folks are less prevalent than straight folks and that transgender folks are less prevalent than what we call cisgender folks.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:08:35]:
So in the military, being LGB or T has been problematic for. For decades. And starting in the mid-1900s was the first time that there were actually explicit policies saying, if you are gay, you are not allowed to be in the military. We will ask you to leave on the basis of homosexuality is a mental disorder. That was the thought at the time. So in the early 90s, there was a compromise. So many people were saying, you know, we should really let gay people serve openly. Like, there’s.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:09:15]:
They’re great, and there’s a lot of them, and it’s problematic for all of us that we keep kicking them out. And then the other camp said, oh, no, no, absolutely not. It would not. It would be bad for morale, for unit cohesion. We don’t want those folks in our military.

So a compromise was found in the form of don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t pursue, which was a policy signed in 1993 and that, you know, for better or for worse, that allowed gay people to serve without being kicked out right away. Of course, if you did come out or somebody did assume that you were gay, then they could do a quote unquote witch hunt and get you kicked out. So we know that about 13,000 suspected gay people were kicked out under don’t ask, don’t tell, little history lesson.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:10:06]:
And then in 2011, don’t ask, don’t tell was repealed. And from that point forward, so it’s been about 10 years now, LGB folks can serve openly in the military. And then of course, trans folks, if you’ve been following the news, they are now able to serve openly as of a couple weeks ago.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:10:30]:
Yeah. If I’m remembering correctly, I want to say it was like 2015 time frame they were allowed to, and then sometime under, under Trump, they weren’t allowed to anymore. And then now they’re allowed to again. So it’s been kind of a roller coaster ride.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:10:48]:
Yeah, yeah. It’s really put trans folks through a lot. And then for same sex couples, as of 2015, the Supreme Court ruling that said that same sex couples could marry one another on a federal level, from that point forward, same sex military couples have been respected as legit couples. So that means a spouse can get a military ID and get access to, to health insurance, just as a different sex spouse has been able to do for all this time. So that was a huge deal in terms of inclusion and integration.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:11:29]:
Yeah. Oh, wow. So I didn’t, I didn’t realize that that didn’t happen until 2015. Yeah. Okay. So. Wow, that just makes me angry. So I already knew, I already knew we were like so slow on everything, but I think just, I don’t even know.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:11:49]:
I’m having a reaction right now.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:11:51]:
So.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:11:52]:
Okay, so even when people could serve openly their, their, their partners and their spouses and they could not get the same benefits that I get currently being married to my husband.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:12:09]:
Right.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:12:10]:
Which like health insurance.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:12:12]:
Right. Or even just such mundane things like I don’t know if you’ve ever gone with him to the BX on base or you to just go to the commissary on base. Same sex partners couldn’t go, they couldn’t go by themselves because they didn’t have a military id. So they didn’t get the benefits of just something as simple as, like cheaper fruit.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:12:36]:
Yeah.

Military Couple Recognition Issues

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:12:37]:
And then I, you know, I’ve also heard the story of. So say a couple was married in their state, but the military didn’t recognize it because they were stationed in a different state, say they have children and the children go to school on base. The civilian spouse could not go and pick up the kids from school or drop them off at school. So it’s an emotional problem and then a logistical problem.

Just on the everyday. I can only imagine what that would have been like. So this community, I would say, and I should mention I identify as bisexual, but I’ve almost exclusively dated and once was married to a man. So I’m tangentially related to this community in the way that bisexuals often feel kind of tangentially related to the broader community.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:13:30]:
So I have heard that during those years where you were finally able to be out without fear of discharge, but you were not allowed to include your spouse was quite a challenging time. And during that time, several support groups popped up.

So there are some good supports, like the Modern Military association of America, which is specifically for same sex civilian spouses to connect with each other and commiserate on the challenges and joys that are unique to their situation and out serve SLDN network. So usually when a small community is embarrassed and embattled, they will bind together and create a very strong supportive network. And that has definitely been the case with LGBT folks in the military.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:14:27]:
Yeah, yeah, that’s. Yeah, I’m. My mind is saying that’s helpful and I’m glad that that’s happening. And I want this to not be an issue anyway, so.

And, and, and I’m imagining that even though, you know, people can be married now, and if I was married to a female, I could go to the commissary and get groceries right now, you know, even though there’s been a lot of progress, I’m imagining, you know, it’s still, it’s just a short period of time, and I’m imagining there are after effects from that that are maybe still playing out kind of like the ripples from that. Do you have any thoughts on what some of those ripples might look like?

LGB Military Outness Post-DADT Study

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:15:16]:
So that is exactly what we wanted to find out with our research. Even though Don’t Aston Tell was repealed, do LGB folks in the military feel like they can disclose their sexual orientation to other military members? So my dissertation specifically looked at outness, which is kind of a funky word. So how out are you to other service members?

And I personally became interested in this in 2012 when I commissioned into the Air Force. I had gone to see my recruiter to officially sign my life away in this big stack of papers. And one of the papers had Me sign my initials next to several statements that said something like, I vow to not hold hands with a member of the same sex or try to marry someone of the same sex. And in the back of my head, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is don’t ask, don’t tell era. And that was repealed one to two years ago. But I didn’t.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:16:15]:
And, you know, I had been an LGBT rights activist for years at that point, and, you know, knew that I was bisexual. Who knows? Who knows who I’m going to date in the future? But I was just scared because I was like, it’s taken me six months to, you know, get to this point, and this is my plan now.

So is it safe to ask my recruiter, like, what the heck is this form, dude? Do I really need to sign this? But, yeah, I. Having to sign that and kind of not say anything, not know if it was safe to question, really clammed me up. I remember taking the Human Rights Campaign sticker off the back of my Prius. Human Rights Campaign is an LGBT rights organization. I would, like, drive, you know, to my first duty station. I take the sticker back off the.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:17:01]:
Off the back of my car because I’m like, is it even safe for me to be an ally? I don’t know. So it took me quite a while to even find out if there were openly queer folks in the military, and definitely had kind of my ear to the ground on that.

So that leads into some of what we found with our data, is that there is a lot of what I like to call mental math. So a lot of weighing the pros and the cons of disclosure, looking for cues, looking for what we call in one of our papers, green flags and white flags that a person, a co worker or a chaplain or a doctor is safe to disclose to.

So some of those green flags will be something like maybe the other military member disclosing that they are lgbt. That’s generally a green flag. It’s safe to disclose. So at my latest duty station, you know, because every time you move, and the PCs, the moves are constant in the military, as we know, you have to do this mental math over and over again and determine who in my workstation is safe to be out to.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:18:11]:
Is my new doctor safe? My new chaplain? So I remember it was one of my first days, and I was meeting one of my co workers down the hall, and I saw that he. So he’s a physician, and he had a rainbow on his badge, a pea and a rainbow around it. And I was like, oh, what’s your, what’s that badge all about? And he said, oh, it’s P for pride. Gay pride. And I was like, oh, my God.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:18:38]:
Excitement.

Coming Out Challenges and Insights

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:18:39]:
There’s at least one person I can like, talk about my dissertation to. And like, I think it was like a year later I even told him I identify as bisexual because it’s, you know, and it’s, it’s even kind of stressful to come out as bisexual on a podcast for, you know, and I had a little bit of heartburn over that, you know, so that’s just, you know, 1% of the stress that it is for generally for a gay or lesbian person, I would say, because I have the COVID of the fact that I generally date men.

So, yeah, we definitely found. So in our data, we found that folks are constantly doing that mental math if they hear what we would call a red flag, which would be maybe somebody who overtly says something negative about transgender people being allowed to serve openly gay or bi folks will often translate that as, this person is probably not safe to tell that I have, you know, a wife or what have you or any other kind of discriminatory beliefs.

Okay, this person is not safe. In general, our LGB folks, and I should say this was a mixed method study where we did 42 in depth interviews with currently serving LGBT folks. And then we did a little over 500 online surveys with half LGBT, half non LGBT, so that we could do disparity research. So this is where all of our data came from.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:20:11]:
And this data was collected from 2016 to 2018. So we found, by and large, everyone’s excited Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was repealed. You know, for sure, life is better. For sure. Everyone’s glad that the Supreme Court ruling said same sex couples can marry and the military will recognize it. That’s all good. And also, just as you were stating, it really all still is quite recent. And many of the people who full throatedly supported Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell are still in.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:20:48]:
And they’re actually our superiors. They’re the higher ranking folks. So our research, our participants would say, yes, the policy changed and that’s good. And also we wonder if there still is anti LGBT sentiment at the individual level. We’re not sure if the culture has fully caught up with the new policy changes.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:21:15]:
Yeah, which would still make it very uncomfortable for, for me, even though I’m allowed to do something, I am maybe don’t feel accepted by the people around me. And that’s where you’re talking about the mental Math to try to figure out who is going to accept me, who isn’t going to accept me.

LGBT Inclusivity Challenges in Military Chapels

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:21:40]:
In the military, a lot of the really helpful resources for couples is at the chapel. And historically, many LGBT folks have had very unfortunate, sometimes capital T, traumatic relationships with the church. So that’s not necessarily a place they want to go if they’re having relationship struggles.

And we do know that there have been some really overtly anti LGBT chaplains, sadly, in our military. And so things like not knowing if they can bring their same sex spouse to a marriage retreat. And we know chapels are awesome. They have marriage retreats. And sometimes a chaplain will say, I refuse to lead this marriage retreat if same sex couples are on it.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:22:36]:
And so stories like that proliferate. And then everybody in the community has heard that there’s, oh, a chaplain that said that you could have 99amazing chaplains and then one who is discriminatory, and it puts you off from even considering going, yeah.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:22:56]:
Yeah. And. And I will say that happened at the VA where I worked too. I worked with the chaplain department to do some workshops for couples when I worked at the va. And I remember there was one chaplain who refused to participate, and I was shocked. I was like, oh, my God, I cannot believe this is.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:23:21]:
And those kinds of rejections is what they call in the literature minority stress. So Dr. Meyer at UCLA has done a lot of great research on this, and my advisors, Dr. Castro and Dr. Goldbach as well, we know that these experiences of discrimination and sometimes overt violence based on your LGBT identity is related to mental and physical health problems.

So we know that LGBT folks are at higher risk for things like ptsd, anxiety, depression, depression, suicidality. And that is not because there’s anything wrong with being lgbt. It’s because the water in which they have grown up with is at times anti lgbt.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:24:05]:
So the. This is a health issue, really. And that’s why I care so much about it, because there is absolutely nothing unhealthy or wrong or abnormal about being lgbt. And that’s what I. That’s what I really recommend. Folks teach their kids, teach their neighbors. It is a valid way to be. It is absolutely normal and healthy, and we need to include these folks.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:24:32]:
It’s an all volunteer military, and we know that LGBT folks are at higher risk of attrition, wanting to leave the military, partially because their families aren’t as accepted as their non LGBT counterparts, and because there is this lingering fear of, will a discriminatory boss find a way to get rid of me, even if it’s not through overt measures like they could have under don’t ask, don’t tell. There’s a lot of secrecy around promotions, and you’re never really sure what other people are truly thinking.

Workplace Favoritism and LGBT Concerns

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:25:06]:
Yeah, Yeah. I think probably just being a therapist, I hear lots of stories about people’s interactions with their. Their bosses and, you know, and I’ve heard plenty of really positive stories, too, but definitely I’ve heard a lot about favoritism, which I’m imagining might be a concern if I’m lgbt. Am I, like, you know, sort of like, picked last it as a form of that discrimination type of thing.

But also, I don’t know. I don’t know that it would qualify as harassment, but, like, ways of just subtly making people know you don’t like them and trying to make their work life difficult. I’ve heard lots of stories about that where. Where it’s.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:26:01]:
It’s subtle. So it would be hard for somebody to, I don’t know, like, prove that they were being discriminated against. Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:26:11]:
Yeah. Subtle ways in which you’re told that you’re part of the out group. I have an example of that. Last week or so, I was meeting with a brand new patient who was in for recurring nightmares. And I was just getting some information about his bedtime routine, you know, as I’m administering the. The nightmare intervention. And I asked something about, you know, nighttime routine, and he mentioned his spouse. So he said the word spouse.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:26:39]:
So me being a good LGBT activist and advocate and informed person, don’t assume it’s a wife. And so I think I said something like, oh, would he or she mind if. Blah, blah, blah. And he was kind of taken aback. This is, you know, active duty. This was a major in the Air Force. And he was taken aback, and he said, she. I’m still normal, Doc, and, oh, it just makes me, like, a little bit nauseous.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:27:06]:
And, yeah, you know, I’m not in those moments. It’s like, what do you do? You know, okay, I hear that you just made a mini homophobic comment. I’m here to treat you. I’m not gonna go on a whole spiel. So I said. I very quickly said, oh, well, they’re normal too. And then, like, moved on, but, like, my heart’s kind of racing, and I’m just like, oh, goodness. Yeah, I can only imagine what other kinds of mini homophobic comments come out of your lips.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:27:43]:
I’m sure you’re a wonderful human being, but those kind of comments are just not necessary.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:27:48]:
Yeah, yeah, I. I absolutely Agree. And so I’m. I’m aware of the time a little bit. So I was hoping maybe we could talk a little bit about sort of like, tips maybe for. For couples especially. Especially, like, as a spouse, I’m just imagining, like, if I was. If I was married to a female, my partner would probably be experiencing more than I would.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:28:20]:
I mean, I might. I probably am from like the other military spouses or something like that. But, you know, I also have the luxury of going and finding more supportive friends and having a better work environment or picking where I want to go. So I guess I’m wondering, what are our tips for. For couples to be supportive of each other if they’re dealing with this sort of mental math and anxiety stress, looking out for. Who can they. Who can they share this part of their lives with and not.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:28:52]:
Yeah. And I don’t want to paint nightmare image of what it’s like to be LGBT in the military. Like I said, it’s way better than it used to be for many, many, many. And it’s getting better all the time. And yet there are some of these stressors. And we know the quality of our relationships determines the quality of our life.

So if your spouse is experiencing some out group status of any sort in the workplace, know that that is real and that is painful, and it’s very important that they have some sort of community. So if you guys can find even a non military community, like a church, like I know the Unitarian Universalists is a non denominational church that’s steeped in LGBT activism.

LGBTQ Acceptance in Military Communities

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:29:36]:
If you can find any community center that is openly accepting, please, please seek those out and know that there are a lot of wonderful people in the military who will also welcome you with open arms. I say, when in doubt, be out. At least that’s a motto for myself.

And so as you are able to be out, you will find more people. We know that in the data we found that younger LGBT people are looking for somebody who’s at least one rank higher than them to be out and to see that they’re okay before they feel comfortable coming out as well. So as you’re able to be an activist, please do, please know that it will increase the chances that you’ll find other folks just like you.

We know that There are between 75 and 100,000 LGBT service members, so they’re out there, and it is a vibrant community, and we’re very lucky to have these people serving for us.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:30:40]:
Thank you again for being part of this podcast. I’ve really enjoyed chatting with you and just talking about this, this is an area that I feel like pretty passionate about that is very underserved. I tend to think that military and veterans are an underserved population already, but then looking at being an LGBT service member is like a whole nother level. And so thank you so much for being on this podcast. I’m just wondering if you have any last thoughts or comments to share before we end today.

Dr. Katie McNamara [00:31:16]:
Thank you so much for having me. Like I said at the top, it is a social science researcher’s dream come true to be able to share their data. Of course I speak for the data and not for the Air Force. I don’t. I’m not their mouthpiece. I’m letting the data speak. And thank you so much for being open to this important info.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:31:37]:
Yeah, thank you.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:31:47]:
I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. If so Please take a second to go rate, review and subscribe so you get all of our future episodes. Make sure to check out the show notes to sign up for our FREE 10-week relationship email course.

This email course is really designed for people who are maybe having trouble with communication or connection in their relationship and helping them develop some quick wins right away to start implementing improving it. While I am a therapist, this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not considered therapy and it should also not be a replacement for therapy. If you think you need a professional of any kind, you should definitely go find one. One until next time.