Surviving Long-Distance and Immigration

Episode Summary of “Surviving Long-Distance and Immigration”

Welcome to another episode of The Communicate & Connect Podcast, your go-to resource for enhancing military relationships through effective communication and genuine connection. Hosted by Elizabeth Polinsky, a seasoned military marriage counselor, this podcast delves into the intricacies of maintaining love and unity amidst the unique challenges faced by military families.

Today’s episode is a heartfelt exploration into surviving long-distance relationships and managing the immigration process, especially for military families. We’re joined by Rachel, a remarkable military spouse who shares her personal journey of love, resilience, and adaptation. With 22 years of marriage to her sailor husband, Rachel takes us back to her teenage years in Canada where their love story began and unfolds the many layers they navigated, from early deployments to the intricate legalities of immigration.

Throughout this conversation, Rachel unveils how she and her husband overcame the hurdles of extended separations due to military deployments, particularly before the convenience of modern communication tools. She provides a candid look at how these experiences shaped their family dynamics and fortified their relationship against the odds. Rachel also opens up about her experiences with immigration, detailing the complexities and emotional rollercoaster of reuniting her family in a new country.

This episode is a treasure trove for anyone in a long-distance relationship or facing similar military lifestyle challenges. Whether you’re a military spouse or simply enamored by love stories that defy distance and time, you’ll find valuable insights and profound takeaways.

Free Relationship Pattern Assessment

Many couples assume they have a communication problem when they’re actually stuck in a relationship pattern that keeps creating the same conflict.

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Episode Transcript for “Surviving Long-Distance and Immigration”

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:00:02]:
This podcast is sponsored by Communicate and Connect Counseling, where we have a team of therapists who provide individual, couples, and family therapy services, all tailored to meet the needs of military and veteran families. To learn more about our services, visit www.communicateandconnect.com.

Welcome to the Communicate and Connect podcast for Milit Relationships with your host, Elizabeth Polinski, a military marriage counselor. If this is your first time listening to the Communicate and Connect podcast, please take a second to go, rate, review and subscribe to make sure you get all our future episodes. We also really want to know what it is you love about our podcast. And if for some reason you’re not loving it, we want to know that too, because we’re committed to providing the best quality content to help you improve your relationships. You’re listening to episode 12, Surviving Long-Distance and Immigration.

Hi everyone, this is Liz Polinsky with Communicate and Connect podcast.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:01:18]:
And I’m really excited because today we have Rachel with us who is a military spouse and she has really has a very unique story, I think, and has been around and through all of the military things for quite a long time. But I don’t want to tell her story for her. So Rachel, why don’t you take a second to introduce yourself and then I’m going to want to hear about the love story.

Rachel [00:01:43]:
Okay, Absolutely. Well, my name is Rachel. I have been married to my Sailor now for 22 years. This past March we have.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:01:52]:
Congratulations.

Rachel [00:01:53]:
We have three children. Our oldest is 24 and he’s actually a sailor himself now. And then we have our 20 year old son and our nearly 18 year old daughter. So we are, we have been through the trenches and we are slowly coming out the other side.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:02:10]:
Yeah. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna want to know about like what those trenches were, but maybe first tell us about the love story because I just, I love love stories. They make me feel like all nice and gooey inside and so I like hearing about them.

Rachel [00:02:24]:
Absolutely. Yeah. We, so we met when I was 15. We were both living in Canada at the time. We fell in love pretty quickly. We ended up having our first son just after I turned 17. So it was definitely hard. We had to make some decisions in terms of what our future would look like and we decided that time to take a break and see what was going to happen.

Rachel [00:02:45]:
He went to boot camp and a school. He was an abe, so he was a flight deck guy for the Navy. He was brand spanky new to the Navy. So I mean zero money. Zero upon zero dollars. Yeah. We ended up coming Back together just before our son was born. We ended up marrying during my senior year of high school.

Rachel [00:03:07]:
My spring break of senior year, we got married and he was deployed. I believe it was about a month after he left on his very first deployment. This was 1998. So pre Skype and email and all that good stuff. We had none of that. We actually, we had these little tape recorders and we would send miniature tapes across the seas.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:03:31]:
Oh, wow, that’s such a. That’s so creative.

Rachel [00:03:34]:
Yeah, it was, it was definitely. The only problem was that we had. It was a six month deployment. Deployments were pretty routine back then. It was six months out. They would come back in like clockwork. Obviously, this is pre 9 11. Yeah, because of the way the mail worked.

Rachel [00:03:50]:
I mean, we would have fights that would last for months and you know, because I would say some offhand comment and then it was, you know, what did you mean by that? But of course I didn’t get that until like a month later. And so it was, it was hard. It was really, really hard. We, we definitely struggled.

I struggled a lot during that first deployment. I became kind of a recruitment. I was afraid to leave home because, you know, what if he called? You know, you live and die by seeing those letters come in. But then, you know, he calls me from, you know, Hong Kong and Australia and I’m dealing with a toddler and loneliness.

Rachel [00:04:22]:
And he’s going on and on about, you know, him and his friends going to this great bar and, you know, you would see these pictures of him having fun. And while you don’t, you know, begrudge him having some levity during such a crap time, when you’re 19 with a toddler away from your spouse, all you see is, oh, he just, he loves this. Hates me. Like, it was, it was hard. Yeah, really, really.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:04:45]:
He’s living the life while you’re. You’re a new mom at home and struggling.

Rachel [00:04:50]:
Yeah, it was, it was rough. And I didn’t have a support system. You know, nowadays girls and guys have, you know, online communities that they can connect with. I obviously didn’t have that. And I was living in Canada at the time. And we didn’t really have a reference for this type of military structure. So there was no frg, no ombudsman, nowhere for me to know what was going to happen. This would obviously rear its ugly head.

Post-Deployment Adjustment Challenges

Rachel [00:05:15]:
So we went to the 98 deployment. He came home, it was roses and happiness, but life comes back, right? You have that honeymoon high of, oh my God, he’s here. Followed by the crash of, okay, well, life is still happening and we still have to, you know, pay bills.

And you know, because he went from his parents house to the Navy, you know, certain things he didn’t understand, like why did groceries cost so much or what was this electricity bill for? Like, it was a learning curve for him too. And we were geo batching at the time, so I was still living in Canada because of immigration costs. We lived in. I was in B.C. canada, he was in Washington state.

Rachel [00:05:55]:
So he would come home sometimes on the weekends. And again, it was this constant struggle of. I knew he had a crappy day at work. Like I knew his days on the ship. He was on the Lincoln at the time. And I knew it was hard. I knew that that was not a fun life. But when he came home, I would word vomit all over him with how much I missed him and wanted him and all this stuff.

Rachel [00:06:16]:
So. And he just wanted. I mean, he was a punky. I think he was what, 22 at the time, maybe 23. So I mean, he was still, you know, young dude who wanted to see his friends when he came home. Yeah, stuff. So it was hard. It was really, really hard.

Rachel [00:06:31]:
We ended up having what I call the deployment baby. So our second son was born, you know, so many months after that deployment ended. He was born in 99 and we. It was a. It was again, it was another adjustment at the time. My husband was considering transitioning out of the military and going back to school. Obviously I was filled with fear because at this point I was high school educated only and now had two small children and no job. So it was, it was scary.

Rachel [00:07:04]:
He ended up staying on the Lincoln for five years and one month. Exactly.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:07:09]:
Okay.

Rachel [00:07:10]:
And then he was in the reserves and he ended up going to school to get his bachelor’s. He. He went to Western Washington. It was during the time of the old GI Bill. So it was a. It was a struggle. There was no BH with the old GI bill. Pre 9 11.

Rachel [00:07:24]:
It only paid for 3 years. He needed 4 years in a chunk. So it was, it was hard. We, we struggled. It was a white knuckle period. Plus he still had his reserve duties, so he would go to the base and all this. So it was hard. And even when he graduated, it was, it was rough.

Rachel [00:07:40]:
It was a really rough period. It was. Yeah, it was not fun. I will back up though. When he, when we had our son, our second son, he was still in the Navy. He deployed right after our second son was born.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:07:52]:
Oh, wow.

USS Cole Attack Inspires Community Involvement

Rachel [00:07:53]:
Yeah. And he was deployed during the coal when the USS Cole got bombed. And this is. This kind of led into my passion later on to be, you know, to be involved in frg, to be involved in the community. Because I remember sitting at home in Canada with my two small boys staring at the tv and all the Canadian news said was there was a US Navy ship in the Gulf, which I knew my husband was. And there again, I mean, this was 2000, so I didn’t even own a computer at the time. I was beside myself. I didn’t even know who to call.

Rachel [00:08:31]:
I had no one. Like I. That. That helpless feeling of the love of my life out there, the father of my sons. And I did not know for a solid day.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:08:42]:
Yeah, that’s so terrifying. I can’t even imagine. Like, I, I live here. Well, it’s like 2020 right, right now and we have computers and my husband was just gone. He just got back recently from being out on a boat. And, you know, I didn’t get to talk to him very often, but it was like every, at least once a week I got to talk to him on the phone, you know, so I can’t, or, or get emails. I can’t even imagine just being at home with no, no one to contact and you’re just watching this happen on the tv. That sounds like terrifying.

Rachel [00:09:16]:
It was, it was absolutely awful. So when he decided to go to the Navy, it wasn’t, it wasn’t that I didn’t want him safe. It was just. It was a financial thing. I was definitely worried that we were going to struggle he reserves throughout his, his education to get his undergrad. And he ended up working for a civilian company right after. But we were broke. I mean, he had a college degree, an engineering degree.

Rachel [00:09:38]:
He was working for a company associated with Boeing Airlines. And so he was doing like tool design and stuff. Very cool work. But like, yeah, we had zero upon zero dollars. So he decided to go back active duty. He actually ended up with the exact same job that he ended up with. So it was, it was kind of crazy. It was like time had stood still even though all this had happened.

Rachel [00:09:58]:
He’s always been the man who’s wanted more. So he, he always was looking for the next thing. It was. I was in awe of him because I was always afraid of like stepping out. And you know, I think in that way we definitely complement each other where, you know, I’m very much behind the scenes and just want things to be okay and he wants the next best thing. And he kind of pushes me to be better. And I kind of keep him grounded in what reality is. But he defied the odds and found a program that would allow him to get his master’s degree in public health.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:10:34]:
So we, while he was serving, like, he did that at the same time?

Rachel [00:10:38]:
Yep. He, it was, it’s the medical procurement, I believe. So he was an abe, so nothing to do with medical at all. Right. He’s not a German. He’s like, he was a, an arresting gear guy. So literally like the gear dog. Right.

Rachel [00:10:52]:
Greasy gear dog guy. And he, he found this program, this very random program that was allowing people to apply to have their master’s degree. He ended up getting accepted to the University of Southern Florida. And so in 2013, with our three children, we set off for Florida. That was interesting. We immigrated as a family, so me and the children finally immigrated to the, to the United States in 2006.

Very expensive, very complicated process. I have a lot of feelings about the immigration process, but it was hard, you know, and every hardship that we had to encounter, whether it was, you know, having our next baby or immigrating or job stuff, it has the ability to tear you apart.

Rachel [00:11:39]:
We would fight and I mean, you know, just screaming matches. I think we’ve both threatened divorce several times on both of our. But I mean, to the point where I remember being pregnant with our daughter and I was about six weeks away from having her, and we were having the conversation of, yeah, we’re both miserable. Let’s. Let’s cut bait. Like, we just, we were done, you know, we just, we were young, you know, and when you’re young and you.

Cross-Border Military Relationship Challenges

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:12:06]:
Had a lot of stressors, I would say, like any, any relationship, when there’s more stress in going on in life, when there’s more stress in life, it puts stress on the relationship. So you were, you were young, but you also had a lot going on. You know, a lot of couples don’t have to deal with immigrating like military couples. And that’s actually a question that I have for you.

This is something that I don’t, I don’t know a whole lot about. And I’m, I’m thinking there might be other people who don’t know about this, but I, I am wondering about how he was a Canadian working in the US Military and if, and that you weren’t allowed to move with him. That is an area that I don’t quite understand. So I was hoping you might be able to explain a little bit more about how he was with the US Military instead of the Canadian military or.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:13:01]:
And why you weren’t able to move with him?

Rachel [00:13:04]:
Yeah, so he, his mother actually was American. She lived in the States, so I believe she was like 10. So she missed the cutoff. So the way the immigration law works is if you have a parent that was in the States, so long as they lived in the States until they were 14 or older, they can apply to sponsor you basically to become a citizen of the country.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:13:25]:
Okay.

Rachel [00:13:26]:
His mom did not do that. So he had, he had it. But sort of like he had to get very creative. It was, it was a long process from the time that he decided to go into the Navy. And I mean, for him it was a total lark. I mean, he was, like I said, I think he barely passed high school. I. I compared our two high school transcripts and it was pretty scary.

Rachel [00:13:45]:
I had like all these A’s. Despite being a, you know, breastfeeding mama in the last two years of high school. Yeah, he got like a P in English 12. So like, they just said, oh yeah, fine, just you can go. But.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:13:57]:
But he, he showed them. I mean, he went and he got a master’s in public health, which is not an easy task.

Rachel [00:14:03]:
Y. He’s definitely. But that’s just him, right? He is. Mr. If you tell me I can’t do it, I’m gonna do it twice. So he. There’s no money to be made in the Canadian military at all. I mean, if you are an officer in the military and that’s the way that you provide for your family, you can qualify for social assistance.

Rachel [00:14:23]:
So he knew that that wasn’t going to be an option for him. And he, you know, I mean, he grew up on an 80s child, so, you know, Top Gun and all that stuff. Right. So that was just his goal. He found people that were willing to help him, but it took him about two years. From the time that he decided to do it to the time he actually like, left for boot camp, it was about a two year process. Now for spouses, it’s not as cut and dried. We were lucky.

Rachel [00:14:48]:
So pre 9 11, it was not happening. In order for me to immigrate, I would have had to apply for a green card. And while applying for a green card, I had to stay put in Canada. Right. Could not leave. And it was just at that time really expensive. After 9 11, we were able to do what was called a K1 visa. Basically saying, we’ve already paid the money for the green card and we’re going to live in the States while we’re waiting for that decision.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:15:13]:
Okay.

Steve’s Accelerated U.S. Citizenship Journey

Rachel [00:15:14]:
It was definitely interesting. Steve. In the meantime, while this was all happening, Steve actually became a citizen in 2002 because post 9 11, the laws changed for him to be able to get his citizenship pre the 10 year mark. Before then, you had to be in the country for 10 years, so he was able to become a citizen.

Oddly enough, I was pregnant with our daughter when he became a citizen. So the way it ended up working out is I had to enter the states with a K1 visa and then get a work permit and if I wanted to get. If I wanted to work. The boys had K1 visas until they could become naturalized.

Rachel [00:15:54]:
Our daughter was able to obtain a consular birth abroad certificate stating that because her father was a citizen, time of birth, she was also a citizen. So, yeah, it’s like this mishmash.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:16:08]:
Fascinating. Yeah. And I just. I just am, like, in shock maybe, because, you know, I think a lot of military spouses, you know, or talk about the difficulties of being separated because of deployment, but then you guys are separated not just from deployment, but even when he is at home. So to say you’re separated, you’re separated by country lines, in a way.

Rachel [00:16:34]:
Yeah.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:16:34]:
And until you guys were able to live in the US with him.

Rachel [00:16:38]:
Yep. It wasn’t until 2000. Yeah, 2000, 6007, when we immigrated down to San Diego, when he decided to go back into the Navy after school. So we were living in San Diego. Now, bear in mind, I was definitely a homebody living in fairly small town in Canada. You know, I had only lived in two places. Right. I lived in one town and then the town right next to it.

Rachel [00:17:02]:
Right. I knew all the same people, you know, and then all of a sudden, I’m now driving myself and my children with my husband down to San Diego, and I was terrified. I was that spouse who was like, I’m never leaving the house. I mean, my family was all like, you’re gonna get shot in a drive by. Because apparently, oh my gosh, all of California is like Compton. So it was. It was definitely a learning curve. And I struggled.

Immigration Challenges: Adapting to New Culture

Rachel [00:17:29]:
It was. It was hard. You know, as much as I love my husband, as much as I wanted to be with him full time, to have to. To immigrate and be in a country that I’m not used to and, and things. And, and yes, Canada, the US Are very, very similar. So it’s not as though I moved from like, you know, Bangladesh and then came. Yeah, you know, very, very similar culture wise. But there are differences that I still, to this day after all these years, I still struggle with, you know, politics is a big one.

Rachel [00:17:57]:
You know, I don’t understand the political system. So it’s hard for me. I don’t. The medical system is very confusing to me still. Like, I remember when my husband was working for a civilian job and he came home with his binder. Bear in mind I had been universal healthcare all my life and he handed me this Blue Cross binder and I’m like, what’s a copay?

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:18:20]:
Yeah. Some of those systems are so different. If I want to ask a question real fast, like how long were you guys together but separated by that country line before you went to San Diego or California? I don’t remember if you said it was San Diego or San Diego.

Rachel [00:18:40]:
San Diego. I would say probably the first six years of our marriage we were separated and then before then it would have been boot camp and stuff. So I would say all together before I immigrated, probably a good 10 years.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:18:53]:
Wow.

Rachel [00:18:54]:
That we would say radically.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:18:56]:
Now that is a long distance relationship if I’ve ever heard one. Ten years. Oh my God.

Rachel [00:19:01]:
Yeah. Wow. It was hard. And you know, it’s at every stage kind of created a new thing. You know, when we finally got to the place where he was in grad school and getting his master’s paid for by the Navy at that point, obviously living in the country for a couple years now, I had managed to establish myself working from home. I’m a big proponent on wives becoming educated on the different avenues that they can have a hustle. Nothing. Mlm.

Rachel [00:19:30]:
I’m. And I apologize to any of your listeners that do have an mlm. I just.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:19:36]:
What do you mean mlm?

Rachel [00:19:38]:
Multi level marketing. So your like pampered chef type style.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:19:42]:
Gotcha.

Rachel [00:19:43]:
You know, I definitely. I’m a huge advocate of military spouses finding career paths that are like actual careers. And it took me a long time to figure it out. A lot of trial and error. But I ended up working from home. My husband left for deployment in 2007 and I was alone in San Diego. I started getting involved with the FRG for my husband’s command and I really loved it. I loved being able to connect with spouses and to help them.

Rachel [00:20:09]:
I went to Compass. If anyone is living in an area and they need to connect compass go. Compass.org is a lifesaver. I don’t care how long your husband has been in go. It is. It’s a treasure. I know it’s hard during these times and like the dumpster fire that is 2020. But yeah, Compass Is an amazing class.

Rachel [00:20:31]:
It’s not based on rank. It’s just spouse, spouse to spouse mentoring. Everything from how to read an LES to local attractions to managing money. It’s an amazing organization, but. Yeah, so I ended up figuring out how to work from home, mostly in the technology field. Again, I’m not a computer science person. No degree, still high school only. But I ended up, you know, kind of working my way up through the ranks of work from home.

Balancing Career and Military Relationships

Rachel [00:20:55]:
And I did everything from Eddie Bauer catalog support to a clinical research company that did the. One of the clinical trials for Latisse, like the I. I love thing. And now I am the operations manager for a scheduling software company. So it is possible to have a career and love someone in the military, but I think in terms of, like, love and career, it’s. You just. You have to adjust your expectations. Are you going to have the life that you thought you were going to have when you were little and planning weddings and what this would all look like? No, it’s not the movies.

Rachel [00:21:35]:
It’s not, you know. Yes. When they come home from deployment, you hear that music swelling in your ears. You hear, like, whatever love song it is, whether it’s, you know, symphony or Celine Dion. In my case.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:21:49]:
I’m smiling so big right now, you can’t see me, but I’m smiling big because that’s. That’s like. Yeah, it does feel like that, doesn’t it? It’s just like this euphoric feeling.

Rachel [00:21:58]:
But that ends. You know, you have that high of that honeymoon period, and you have to figure it out. And I think that a lot of wives and. And husbands now to struggle with that expectation, you know, you have to. You. You have to meet somewhere in the middle. You know, you can have a fulfilling life and love someone in the military, but there’s going to be a lot of sacrifice on both your sides. You know, he.

Rachel [00:22:23]:
He now has to decide on his next duty station, and he’s trying to keep it within the lower 48 as much as possible. I can keep working my job, you know, and so far we’ve been pretty successful, but it’s a struggle. But I will say, you know, this last deployment was our umpteenth deployment, but he got to deploy with his son. So the son that he left behind on his very first deployment was the son that was on the ship with him. They were both stationed on the exact same ship.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:22:51]:
That’s such a special experience.

Military Family: Emotional Homecomings & Challenges

Rachel [00:22:53]:
Yeah, they got to do port calls together. I got pictures of them in Dubai and Thailand. It was it was amazing having those two come off the ship at the same time. And I was thinking back to like my very first homecoming with him, and then I had my son, and it was just, yeah, I was a ball of emotion. I believe that whole month.

But again then the reality right now, I still have, you know, a son who went through his very first deployment at a young age who, you know, he’s a very solid kid, but it’s still a struggle, you know, and I think that that’s, that’s, you know, that’s the full circle of this military life is that, you know, no matter what age and stage you’re at, you’re gonna have to figure out some stuff.

So, you know, my. My other piece of advice for any military spouse who’s just starting out and, you know, is all sorts of, you know, the love song swell is just know that there are gonna be some struggles.

Rachel [00:23:48]:
You know, my husband and I, we love each other and he is my best friend, but we struggled. There was a deployment. He came home one year and he couldn’t sleep in our bed. He had to sleep on the couch because he was so used to his rack that being in our bed freaked him out. He couldn’t handle it. And it was hard. It was hard having a husband who didn’t want to sleep in my bed and wanted to sleep on the couch.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:24:10]:
So, yeah, I’m just imagining like that would hit, like, I think it would hit my self esteem in a way. Like, why doesn’t my husband want to sleep next to me and want to be with me after he’s been gone for such a long time?

Rachel [00:24:22]:
Yeah, it was. It was hard. It was definitely, you know, you have these amazing moments and, you know, and I think too, now that we have Facebook and Pinterest and all these things, it’s like, you know, I think girls and guys, you know, spend so much time with that.

That romance and then they don’t understand that that after part, you know, like, you’re gonna have to being the spouse, it’s often up to you. And, you know, the military gives us some tools, but not the best tools to be like, here we broke them. Can you put them back together again so that we can have them back for work? And it’s. It’s hard. You know, it’s a struggle and you.

Rachel [00:24:54]:
But you figure it out and you live to fight another day, I guess.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:24:58]:
Yeah. That’s. That’s so interesting that you said that, because I don’t know that I think that that’s a spouse’s job to put someone back together, you know. Yeah, we, I probably, we could probably go into a long time on that, that idea, but there is kind of that assumption.

Rachel [00:25:12]:
Yeah, I mean, I, I’ve often lamented, I’m like, why aren’t there more, more tools? You know, there were. We’re sent home these people that we, you know, said goodbye to X amount of months ago. And you know, I have friends of mine who, whose husbands are Marines. Right. Boots on the ground.

So they leave and then come back and you’re, you’re struggling because the man that you sent away may not be that same person that you get back. And you have to find a way to love this new person because while they look and smell the same, they’re not always the same. There are parts of them that are change and sometimes those parts will come back and sometimes they don’t.

Rachel [00:25:53]:
And it’s, it’s, it’s really, really hard. And I, I definitely feel for wives who get back, spouses who are damaged further than what my husband had experienced with his minor ptsd. You know, it’s you, you feel so badly for them because the resources while they’re there are not super readily available. And if they are, there’s like a stigma. You know, when our, when our husband and wives are in the military, there, there can be a stigma attached to asking for help and, you know, getting more resources for them. And it’s hard. It’s really, really hard.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:26:30]:
Yeah, I can really, I’m feeling that when you say it right now. I think, you know, most of my work experience was treating PTSD in veterans at the Veterans Affairs Clinic. And I have a guest speaker. So actually it’ll be in the lineup of podcasts. It’ll be before this episode, but I have a psychologist who’s going to end up coming to talk about PTSD and the impact that has on families.

And you’re right, there is a stigma, especially while you’re in the military, about going and getting help after you’ve experienced something that’s been traumatic. But from a mental health standpoint, PTSD is actually a very natural, normal reaction. It’s your body doing what it should do in response to a life threatening event.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:27:21]:
And I wish, yeah, I wish more people understood that because it, it’s not a mental health, you know, we, we diagnose it as a mental health disorder, but it’s not like something’s wrong with you the way that maybe people feel like other, other mental health diagnoses might be. This is just a very Natural response to your body. Your body going through a life threatening event.

Rachel [00:27:46]:
Wow, that’s, that’s a very interesting. Because I’ve never heard it described that way. That’s a natural thing. You know, I, I, for the first time reached out for mental health help when we were living in 29 palms and I had finally kind of, you know, I was hitting 40 and just, you know, all the life changes.

And I ended up seeing a health professional who diagnosed me as having extreme ptsd because I would get very startled easily, even when my husband. Yeah, and it felt at the time like, not like a death sentence or anything, but you just, you feel like, oh, well, I’m just broken like that. Now I’m, now I know I’m broken and I’ve never heard it described that way. That’s a very, I wish more people would describe it that way.

Trauma Response: Constant Alert Mode

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:28:25]:
Yeah, well, I’m glad I can describe it this way for you too, because, yeah, it’s really just like a button that’s pushed on maybe. So you’re on alert for danger now and it’s really just like your body, I’m getting mixed up on my words. But your body pushes on that button saying, hey, we got to look out for danger because you’ve been in a lot of danger and life threatening experiences and it just stays on.

And the thing is that when people come back or after a life threatening type of event, that button just, it didn’t unpop out, it stayed popped in. And so they stay on alert looking for the danger, which is the body’s natural response. And so a lot of it is helping people realize that they aren’t in danger now and helping the body kind of like let go of that on button.

Marriage Challenges: Supporting a Spouse with PTSD

Rachel [00:29:24]:
That’s really cool. I, I, you know, it, it definitely, I wish more people like you were talking about that because it is, you know, when you’re a spouse and you hear like, I have a girlfriend of mine whose husband actually is a, he works in like the religious services and he weigh boots on the ground and, and suffers with PTSD and, and she, I know she’s felt helpless because you just feel like they’re, well, now we know they’re broken, you know, and there’s just this, yeah, well, now they’re broken and now how do I fix it?

And I think, you know, one thing I had to learn along the way, definitely trial and error, is I can’t fix him, but I can definitely make it so that when he’s home that I try to not be the one thing that’s like, hard for him. You know what I mean? Like, I’ve really become cognizant that my words mean a lot to him. You know, when I say things kind of off the cuff or whatever, it’s, you know, I’ve learned that, you know, even though he is a man and he’s a manly man, that, you know, some things hurt.

And I very, very cognizant of that. And it’s, you know, I. Like I said, I’ve known this man now for 25 years of my life, and we’re still figuring it out. Like, you know, we’re still entering new phases and stages, and every time we do, it’s like we’ve got a.

Rachel [00:30:41]:
It’s almost like renegotiating them, the marriage contract. You know, we got married absolutely super young, and we decided a long time ago, like, look, you know, especially that last time that we were on the brink of divorce, and we just made this cognizant decision that, you know, if we wanted to do this for the long haul, we. We were committed to actually staying together.

We were going to have to renegotiate what marriage looked like at these different stages because, you know, being in the trenches with little kids is very different than where we’re at now with growing children who are. Our last one is getting ready to graduate high school. School. Our middle son is going to be graduating college. And, you know, this will probably be the last house where we have people that we created living with us full time.

Rachel [00:31:19]:
So it’s. Yeah, it’s that whole renegotiation.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:31:22]:
It is. And I’m. I’m glad you brought that up. And I think you are. Are like proof. I mean, you guys have been together for. For so long. Proof that.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:31:31]:
That relationships can work and that they do require renegotiating what the relationship looks like. Like, I often think, you know, you’re really dating multiple people throughout your marriage because you both are growing individually and as a couple, and you have new interests, you develop. You know, you may go through different periods of, like, having a psychological growth period or go through, like, a fitness phase or, you know, we all. We all have different phases and ways that we grow. And so you could really be with different types of people. They’re all still your spouse, but there are different versions of your spouse as you go along.

Rachel [00:32:17]:
Absolutely.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:32:17]:
So I like that. I like that you talked about renegotiating, and you guys have clearly been pretty successful at that if you’ve made it. Made it in your marriage this long. Yeah. And so I Know, so you were talking about you guys are kind of in a new phase. And so maybe that was one of the things you and I had talked about before starting this episode was, was kind of switching into the phase of like empty nesters and kids leaving the home. Did you want to talk at all about that?

Rachel [00:32:51]:
Yeah, it’s definitely been something I thought about a lot. You know, we, as I mentioned before, we were in the trenches of little kids and, and when you have small children, you really don’t think that’s ever gonna end. Right? The, the feedings and the diapers and the tantrums and. But you know, now we’re lucky at this moment. You know, my son, my oldest son, who’s a sailor is still living with us.

We were, you know, because we’re all stationed here together. But this will be the last home because of what’s happening, you know, with the, with my daughter graduating high school and my son graduating college and my oldest deciding whether or not he’s going to stay in the Navy. So this will probably be the last house that we are all living together.

Rachel [00:33:29]:
And my husband is excited, he is over the moon that, you know, it’s just gonna be the two of us. I have a lot of anxiety about it. You know, I, I, I’ve never been a Betty Crocker type mom. You know, I’ve never been, yeah, you know, I love my children, but I was never like, my children are precious gifts. I was like, yeah, this jerk lives with me right now.

But still, you know, I identify a lot of my day to day as a mom and when that part goes away, it’s just gonna be the two of us, you know, and I’ve definitely, well, I know I love him and he’s my best friend, you know, that part of our lives is going to be changed. You know, we will no longer be dealing with, you know, that, that day to day stuff. So, and, and, and I really worry about my kids being out of my nest.

Rachel [00:34:18]:
I often say that I’m the happiest when all my chickadees are in my nest with me. So it’s been, I’m, I’m, I’m worried. I, those days are going to be hard.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:34:29]:
That I think is so, so natural to be, to be anxious. I mean, you’re rounding a corner, you know, and it’s like I know that this big life change is going to happen and I don’t really know what it’s going to look like yet. So not only are you worried maybe for yourself and like the life change you’re going to have, but your kids are going through a big life change and how are they going to adjust to it?

Also? That makes a lot of sense. And a lot of couples, it kind of goes like one of two ways. It’s usually never like the middle ground with anything in life. I, you know, is that when, when couples kind of end up being empty nesters and they’re rounding that corner like what the research says, it’s actually one of the times where couples are the happiest.

If they can kind of renegotiate their marriage and reconnect again after that, then it can actually be one of the times where couples are the happiest and they, they enjoy their lives the most. So that’s the bright side, I think of it.

Rekindling Love After Kids

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:35:28]:
I think the, the part that is a struggle to get there for some couples is that maybe their life has become so much about the family life and the kids. And that’s really natural because, I mean, you have kids, you have to take care of them, you know, so they, but what they do in their day and their week and their life becomes, you know, what are we doing for the kids?

And their relationship as a couple often gets kind of on the side, put on the side burner as they focus more on the family aspects. And one of the big things that I guess couples have to re redo is kind of get to know each other again. There’s a researcher called Dr. John Gottman and his wife Julie Gottman, she’s also a doctor. They run the Gottman Institute.

But they’re one of the big researchers and couples, couples related research. And they talk about something called love maps, which is basically the idea that when you’re young and you’re first falling in love, you know, you’re really interested in your partner and you learn about, you know, what was it like for them growing up? What do they dream about for their future? Who do they want to be? You know, what are their desires and interests and hobbies? And as you go along in your marriage or your relationship, you stop learning about each other.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:37:00]:
You don’t update those like mental maps of what your partner is like and who they are. And when couples get to this stage and their lives have been so focused on their kids and they sometimes find that they don’t have much in common. And so part of reconnecting is learning, having that same type of interest in learning.

What are their fears, what are their hopes for the future, what are their goals and interests? Turning to each other for support. I Think a lot of people feel this anxiety, but they don’t talk to their spouse about it, or they are realizing, oh, I don’t have as much in common with my spouse outside of the kids anymore, but it’s kind of scary to say that to the person you love. And so they never talk about it.

Rachel [00:37:48]:
Right.

Rekindle Connection with Your Partner

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:37:49]:
And so I guess if I had to say like three things in like a three point bullet, it would be tell your partner that you’re anxious about it. Not necessarily you specifically, but like people in general talking about, about it and acknowledging like, yeah, our, we’ve kind of grown apart or we don’t know how to reconnect just us without the kids.

And then start. Number two would be to start showing an interest in learning about what this person in front of you is like again, almost like you did when you guys first met. And then lastly, it would be trying to bring in time to spend together again. Because I guess, what am I thinking? I’m thinking that for a lot of couples, their lives become about the kids. And if they have hobbies, they’re their hobbies that they do separately with friends often, oftentimes they don’t often have hobbies that they’ve done together. And so that can be a great way to start pulling in.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:38:54]:
And I guess I have this image in my mind of like rounding a corner, but of starting to come together again. To have these like strands that tie you together in terms of hobbies and activities that you’ve been doing. Creating new experiences for you guys to enjoy together, I think are big ways for couples to navigate that transition.

Rachel [00:39:19]:
Well, I like that. That’s a good, that’s a good. I like the imagery of rounding the corner.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:39:24]:
Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So those are kind of like my, my thoughts on, on that. Do you have any thoughts on that that you want to share?

Rachel [00:39:33]:
No, I actually really, I like the idea of just a lot of communication, you know, making sure and I mean, that’s kind of been the, the thing in our marriage is just, you know, being kind but honest, you know, learning that, you know, we can be honest about our feelings. You know, just being kind about it. You know, I try not to lash at him for things that are beyond his control.

And that’s, you know, that was a big learning thing for me when I was younger. Because, you know, when you’re younger, obviously romance looks different and you think that, you know, every fight leads to divorce court, you know, oh, well, we just don’t get along. This has got to be over. You know, obviously now that I’m older and somewhat wiser. I know that people can fight and it’s good and cathartic to get things out so long as it’s done constructively.

Openly Sharing Empty Nest Anxiety

Rachel [00:40:19]:
So I think for us it’s just, you know, I’ve learned to not be so closed in with what I’m thinking of. I used to have the internal dialogue like, oh, he doesn’t care. He, you know, maybe I don’t want to bother him with this, but I have been voicing that my, my anxiety about the empty nest thing as much as I can with him.

And, and I think he gets it. You know, he tries. I mean, he’s Mr. Levity at times where he’s like, oh, you know, it’ll be fine. You know, he, you know, he just thinks everything is going to click and go, and that’s just, you know, how he is, I guess.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:40:49]:
Yeah.

Rachel [00:40:49]:
The military guys, it’s like, oh, that’s just, you know, insert slot A into B and off you go.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:40:55]:
Yeah, my husband’s like that too.

Rachel [00:40:59]:
And the longer they’re in the military, it definitely, that becomes ingrained. You know, Steve’s now been military for, you know, over 25 years, so he, he definitely feels it in his, in his bones. I don’t know if he would ever know how to be a full time civilian. So, you know, the retirement thing is obviously, you know, he is planning on retiring in the next 10 years because now that he’s medical, he can stay and he’ll. How does he put this now? He says he’s going to age out before he ranks out medical service Corps can stay until like 62.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:41:31]:
Oh, wow.

Rachel [00:41:32]:
Yeah, he’s, he says 55 is his magic number. So we got about like nine, 10 years. But, but yeah, just being really open and honest with him and just really trying to make it, make it known to him that I’m not afraid of being with him full time. I love him. He’s a great guy. I just don’t know how that looks for me and for us as a unit, you know, like him on his own. I love him. It’s great.

Rachel [00:41:53]:
But, like, how does that look? And I think just making sure that we constantly have those conversations and, you know, acknowledge that it’s gonna be different, you know, good, bad or ugly, it’s, it’s gonna, it’s gonna be different. And, and knowing that different doesn’t always mean catastrophic and awful.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:42:10]:
Yeah. And I think the, the thing that you guys have going for you is that you have made it through so many transitions before so you, you already know how to go through a transition together. This is just the next one. And it’s a one that’s a little bit different than what you’ve done before, but it’ll be the same skill set that you guys have used to navigate all the other ones.

Rachel [00:42:31]:
Absolutely. I like that.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:42:33]:
For those listening, if you were to kind of like maybe give one or two points of advice to young spouses or military spouses, or it could be about military or just making it, you know, through 10 years of long distance or just making it to being together for over 20 years, what would be your top points that you would want to share?

Rachel [00:42:57]:
Absolutely. I would say, you know, be, be flexible. I went to one of those Compass classes and their big thing was Semper Gumby, right? Be always flexible. And I think that as spouses we have to do that. You know, some things are not always going to be the way you imagine them to be, but that doesn’t mean it’s the worst thing ever. You know, be flexible. Be open. Every duty station that your husband’s going to get offered may not be Hawaii, may not be that thing that you were absolutely excited to do, but you know, you can make it work.

Rachel [00:43:33]:
I lived in 29 Palms, California. That is not a fun place to go, but I met some amazing people there. So just be open minded, be flexible and know that you know, you are definitely not alone. If you are feeling or thinking something, you know, chances are other people are too. And, and just keep your expectations realistic. You know, I think online groups, while being super supportive can start setting expectations that there’s a right way to do this and there isn’t, there isn’t one size fits all. Some people have to geo batch. Some people would rather cut off their arms and geobatch.

Special Needs Support for Military Spouses

Rachel [00:44:10]:
You know, some people have children with special needs and those considerations have to be made. I think, you know, just being kind to each other, you know, us spouses, we have to stick together. You know, whether it’s join an frg, get to know your ombudsman, you know, don’t go into a command thinking that the spouse group is going to be the spirit caddy, you know, hen club.

Yes, some clubs can be that way, but if you want to be different, you can make it different. I was a junior sailor’s spouse and I ended up, you know, changing the way an FRG looked for my command. And I was very proud of what I did. And I think that, you know, if there’s that famous quote, you know, be the change that you want to see in the world. So you know you need to to stick your hand up and volunteer.

Rachel [00:44:57]:
And I promise you that getting involved with the community outside of the online realm will make you feel better. It will give you perspective that you can help others who are maybe feeling the same as you and having that sense of community will make the next things easier.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:45:15]:
Yeah, I just love everything you’re saying. I’m sitting here and I’m like nodding my head and I’m thinking oh yeah, no one can see me. But I have been like total agreement so. Well Rachel, this has been so enjoyable for me. I have. I have just loved hearing about your story and it’s inspiring for me to hear about how you guys have made it through so many different struggles, a large variety of struggles and are still going strong in your relationship. And yeah, thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing.

Rachel [00:45:51]:
Well, thank you so much for having me. This has been a very eye opening and enjoyable experience.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:46:08]:
I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. If so Please take a second to go rate, review and subscribe so you get all of our future episodes. Make sure to check out the show notes to sign up for our FREE 10-week relationship email course.

This email course is really designed for people who are maybe having trouble with communication or connection in their relationship and helping them develop some quick wins right away to start improving it. While I am a therapist, this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not considered therapy and it should also not be a replacement for therapy. If you think you need a professional of any kind, you should definitely go find one. Until next time.