Coping with PCS Stress with Michelle Farmer

Episode Summary of “Coping with PCS Stress with Michelle Farmer”

Welcome to The Communicate & Connect Podcast with your host, Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky. In today’s episode, titled “Coping with PCS Stress with Michelle Farmer,” we dive deep into the unique challenges faced by military families during Permanent Change of Station (PCS) moves. Joining us is Michelle Farmer, a true expert in navigating military life, having experienced it from multiple perspectives—as an army brat, a service member, a military spouse, and a member of the reserves.

Michelle and Dr. Polinsky explore a range of topics, from the complexities of communication within families and fostering open, vulnerable dialogues, to practical and emotional coping strategies during relocations. We’ll discuss the importance of building a resilient family culture where difficult emotions can be addressed and understood, and share real-life experiences and tips for managing PCS stress, such as using “I” statements, organizing essential documents, and leveraging community resources.

Tune in as Michelle shares her personal stories of moving, making new friends, and the impact of support networks. We’ll also delve into the powerful concepts of cognitive restructuring, reframing stressors, and balancing the scales between eustress and distress. Whether you’re a military family or looking to improve communication and connection within your own home, this episode offers valuable insights and encouragement. Don’t miss out on this heartfelt and practical conversation!

Resources and Links Mentioned:

• Bloom | Empowering the Military Teen (bloommilitaryteens.org)
• Mission: Milspouse (missionmilspouse.org) 
• Home • Planting Roots – Strength to Thrive Military Life
• Pathfinder Counseling Group, LLC Dan Kinjorski, Licensed Professional Counselor, Clarksville, TN, 37043 | Psychology Today (Michelle’s father’s counseling practice)

Don’t forget to check out our free 10-week relationship email course! Let’s get started!

Guest Speaker Bio – Michelle Farmer

Michelle grew up in the Army as an Army Chaplain’s kids PCSing about eight times including Germany and Texas twice. She graduated from Mannheim American High School in 2010. She left for Lee University in Cleveland, Tennessee the summer after graduation and attained her BA in Psychology.

She moved back in with her parents where they were pastoring in Medford, OR at the time. She had the great opportunity to work on-call as a Juvenile Justice Specialist 1 working both throughout the CBT (Cognitive Behavioral treatment) Pods and the detention center pods. Jackson County Juvenile Justice services was where she learned a lot and was humbled working within the social work environment.

After a year working on-call she enlisted in the Army. After Basic training and AIT her first duty station was JBLM where she met and fell in love with her now husband. Michelle transitioned from active duty to reserves and they had their first child.

A month after their daughter was born her husband reported to Korea and requested command sponsorship for Michelle and their daughter to join them on the two-year tour. When they settled in Korea Michelle applied to Widener University for the accredited online MSW (Master of Social Work) program while also integrating her education at her reserve unit in Korea. She was grateful for her NCOIC (Non-Commissioned Officer in Charge) and OIC (Officer in Charge) for advocating and being a support for her education and career goals. After the tour to Korea, they moved to Fort Eisenhower, GA.

In the first year of being in Georgia, Michelle realized and learned where her passion and priorities lay ahead. She transitioned from Reserves to IRR (Individual Ready Reserves) and she completed her practicums at a Domestic Violence Center and a Family Counseling Center.

About a month before the family’s report date to Germany she finished the MSW program. Michelle is currently volunteering with the local Red Cross, just recently transitioned back into the Reserves from IRR, and is also in the process of preparing the Army SWIP board packet for the next fiscal year. Her and her very supportive and loving husband have two beautiful girls who love to take risks, are active, and social.

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Episode Transcript for “Coping with PCS Stress with Michelle Farmer”

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:00:01]:
This podcast is sponsored by Communicate and Connect Counseling, where we have a team of therapists who provide individual, couples, and family therapy services, all tailored to meet the needs of military and veteran families. To learn more about our services, visit www.communicateandconnect.com.

You’re listening to episode 58 on coping with PCs stress with Michelle Farmer. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Communicate and Connect podcast. Today we have a special guest with us, Michelle Farmer, who’s here to talk to us a little bit about coping with all the stress that comes from pcsing and moving, which is also common in the military. So, Michelle, thank you for being here. Maybe you could just, like, tell us a little bit about you so, so the audience can kind of get a feel for who you are.

Michelle Farmer [00:01:12]:
Hi. Yes, thank you. And I appreciate the invite on here to speak about this as much as this is a topic that is important in the military community, because, I don’t know, I grew up in the army. My dad is a retired army chaplain. And then I went to college and then enlisted and then married as a spouse and then went into the reserve. So I have all these different roles as an army brat experiencing all the PCs moves, including like pcsing overseas. So I am very happy to talk about it. And no, I am not perfect in any of this.

Michelle Farmer [00:01:55]:
I’m still learning and I’m, all these experiences I’m learning from sometimes it’s a lot of retraining, so, but I’m going to do my best in trying to inform the military community on different ways to help cope with the stress.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:02:14]:
Yeah, I, I’m thinking, I so appreciate you being willing to come because you’ve really experienced it all from every single vantage point as a child, as a service member yourself, then as a spouse, like, you can really get the stress of, of moving to, in all the different ways it can be stressful. I also really appreciated that you said it’s not perfect. We’re all trying to figure out how to cope with stress and with something that is really, I think, not the norm, not the thing that we would have to adjust every few years over and over and over and over and over again to living in a new place.

Michelle Farmer [00:03:06]:
I think even where we want to move the process of getting there to our next duty station that is perceived to be an amazing duty station, the process is still very hard because then you just want to procrastinate and you’re like, I just want to get there. But then again, you have to do all this stuff beforehand.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:03:27]:
Yes. I think I’m feeling that right now. We’re in Fallon, Nevada right now, but we’ll be moving in the summer of 2025. We don’t know where yet, but I’m like, anywhere here.

Michelle Farmer [00:03:42]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:03:43]:
Yeah. So maybe we can just talk a little bit about what is stress. And I think, especially in this context, how it would be so normal for everybody to experience stress. I just can’t imagine somebody moving and that not being stressful, even in a good situation, like what you said.

Michelle Farmer [00:04:07]:
Yeah. I think as soon as this question popped up, discerning the differences between what EU stresses and what distresses, I think is very beneficial for anybody to recognize because EU stress can help us be more productive versus distress, putting us in that fight, flight, or freeze kind of response. I don’t know if you want to expound on that a little bit.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:04:37]:
Yeah, well, I think I’m happy if you want to. The difference what is Eustress and what is distress and when those would come up for different people, do you happen to know?

Michelle Farmer [00:04:51]:
So I kind of let me try to go through with my different roles a little bit. So as a kid, I can’t really think of anything that would put me in a distressful experience so much because I didn’t really have to worry about much. Just worry about packing. Right?

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:05:12]:
Yeah.

Michelle Farmer [00:05:14]:
And just going following along with my parents and my brother. But I think Eustress would be, like, checking things off the list and making the list and doing what you need, making sure that communication is there with whoever needs to be a part of the process.

Distress, when it comes to PCs, is like being so overwhelmed that you just, like, sit on the couch and just kind of be frozen a little bit and, like. Or cry or just be very overwhelmed with everything that’s going on. Even, like, just being overwhelmed that you’re going to lose a support network or you’re not going to be close to family anymore and stuff like that. So. But that could be distress or. Yeah.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:06:16]:
Yeah. I’m really hearing, like, the way that one type can be really helpful. It can be motivating. It can help you kind of, like, handle everything. It’s almost like energizing. I certainly felt that a little bit. Our move here to Fallon, my husband was actually deployed. He got back, like, two weeks before we were moving.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:06:42]:
And so a lot of the packing and the organizing for every. All of the move fell on me. But it was. I was almost in, like, a flow of, like, okay, this is the next thing. I can check it off the to do list. And it almost had, like, a fun nature to it because I was checking things off and it’s always nice to get stuff off your to do list.

Michelle Farmer [00:07:03]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:07:06]:
Yeah. But certainly I could understand the distress also. I think I felt that a little bit more after we moved when I didn’t have as much of the checklist anymore. Like even once we got here, I had the checklist of unpacking and organizing the whole house, and that really helped me keep going. But then things like missing the support network were really hard.

Michelle Farmer [00:07:37]:
Yeah. And I know, like having someone help move, help you move in that process. Like my mom has been instrumental in the majority of our PCs moves. Like she, when I left AIT, when I got completed AIT and I was going to my first duty station, she was on the road trip with me, driving back, driving to my first duty station when I got, when my first daughter was born.

And my mom stayed with me for like a month and my husband had to leave a month after she was born to go to our next duty station to prepare. And so my mom was with me the entire PCs process and that was like my first family PCs. So she was giving me all the guidance and wisdom she had when, when she PCs, all the, all the time she had and so, but I always had that support. So with this last PCs, I was, there was some distress.

Michelle Farmer [00:08:50]:
Actually, it was one of the most horrendous, I guess you could say PCs that we went on just because I didn’t. So that support, there wasn’t that support. My, my parents were 6 hours away and my mom was teaching. My, my dad was, is going through his PhD and stuff and we just, we didn’t really have as much of a consistent support network or support there with me.

And at this point I had two kids. So I had a, how old? She just turned to, she was like a year and a half year old, basically, and my five year old, so. And then I just adopted a dog as well to work on becoming a therapy dog. And then my cat just died and well, I had two cats and one of them passed away from liver disease.

Michelle Farmer [00:09:56]:
So like two weeks after we adopted the dog.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:10:00]:
Oh, that’s, a lot of these like.

Michelle Farmer [00:10:02]:
Lining up in our moving company kind of was not the greatest, which I will mention later. You can decline a moving company if you have seen or heard that they are not doing what they need to do.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:10:23]:
Oh, that’s really good to know.

Michelle Farmer [00:10:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, um, they can, the liaisons, I forgot to look up the name of who that person is that is with you during the HHG movement, but you you can request to have to get another moving company, military moving company. But on that note, we did. We had support network, we had great neighbors who helped us when they could, and.

But it was just moments of distress where I was like, I have no idea how I’m gonna get this done. So I ended up, I’m gonna try to make it as short as I can, but I ended up, it was the night of a huge storm in Georgia, and I stayed up until two or two in the morning trying to clean the house. And because our cleaning company canceled on us due to illness, like weeks ago, and I didn’t have a plan b, which is always have a plan B and C.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:11:25]:
Plan B and C. Okay.

Michelle Farmer [00:11:28]:
Right. So we had hired someone to clean the house and that fell through. And so I was trying to pick up the pieces and we were leaving for the Atlanta airport at like three or four in the morning with our cat. Fortunately, our dog was, we were using a pet shipment company for our dog. So that was, that was good. But it was just, it was, that was one of the hardest moves. I think I learned a lot from that move, from this past move. And this was one of my duty stations.

Michelle Farmer [00:12:03]:
I’ve been wanting to, I lived in Germany before and I wanted to get back, and here I am. But the process was, was very challenging. But I did it. We did it. And my husband was there, so we all did it. We all came through.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:12:20]:
So, yeah, yeah, I know we’re gonna talk about coping skills a lot. And so I’m hearing, I might just call them out as I’m hearing them. And so I’m hearing having a plan B and C is going to be really helpful. That’s kind of like a really practical kind of tip, but then also somehow trying to see if there is a support system to rely on, that having a support system is actually a way of coping with the stress. It can help you be more in that EU stress or kind of like that productive stress versus the distress that feels just overwhelming.

Michelle Farmer [00:13:04]:
Oh, yes, most definitely.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:13:06]:
Yeah. I’m wondering if you have, before we go really into the. Probably some of the, like, more emotional type of coping skills for stress, I’m wondering if you just have kind of like tips for like general pcsing tips, like having a plan B and C, or if there are other kind of logistical things that maybe if someone’s listening and this is their first one, they wouldn’t have thought of.

Michelle Farmer [00:13:32]:
Yeah. So I would like to mention finding one. I would like to mention finding the community resources, especially on post or on the instant military installation. In the army, there is army community services, acs, MWR. They have all these different resources you can get through. Call acs and, and see, hey, I’m about to PCs. I want to know, you know, if you have any resources that I can, that can help me move this, have this process, go through this process as smooth as I can. Also, mission milspouse is a, is another resource to utilize.

Michelle Farmer [00:14:14]:
I actually just looked on their website and there’s a, there’s all these different tips and resources that you can utilize to have a smooth PCs and smooth transition. And it’s just, it’s really awesome. And there’s blogs as well on there as well.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:14:36]:
Yeah. I’ll make sure to include links to that in the show notes. If anybody wants to find the resources as you list them, I’ll make sure to link them in the show notes.

Michelle Farmer [00:14:46]:
Awesome. Thank you so much. Something that my husband and I did going to Korea was now it’s just we have binders all over the place and we have to reorganize them. But we created a PCs binder. So just like some military, I don’t know if other branches do this, but in the army we call them. I love may binders and they are our career binders. Where we have, we store all of our stuff that we need for the army as a service member to take with us.

So we created a PCs binder with all the stuff that we needed, all the passports, all the documents for shipment, the documents for our vehicle and everything that’s needed, and create a little index of where, what’s where in the binder.

Michelle Farmer [00:15:36]:
And that was very, very useful. Birth certificates as well, marriage certificates, everything. Create that PCs binder. I think that was very, my husband’s organizer, and so he did that immaculately. And then communication, that’s part of the, I think more of an emotional coping.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:15:58]:
I think, with the stress, but so important.

Michelle Farmer [00:16:02]:
But yeah, yeah. And I know if you want to go, do you want to go into the emotional aspects of it?

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:16:07]:
Yeah, yeah. This seems like the natural transition. I love the binder idea. Yeah, yeah.

Michelle Farmer [00:16:13]:
It’s great. So with the emotional aspects, with the mental health portion of it, and I don’t think I mentioned this in the beginning as well. I know we talked about it prior, but I have a master of social work degree, so me learning about the mental health aspects of coping with stress as well helps. But don’t bottle up the stress because it physically hurts. Like the shoulders will, like hurt, your neck will hurt. Find a healthy outlet for the stress. Either travel, do a little one day trip, do a road trip, whatever helps you relieve that stress of PCs and. But having that support network as well.

Michelle Farmer [00:17:07]:
I know. I also didn’t mention, I also had another family friend while we were in Georgia who helped a lot with the kids. And that was. That was an amazing thing. And also helping with purging, like, hey, can you please take this off our hands? Yes. Here, let me give all my baby stuff to you who’s pregnant. Please just take it.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:17:32]:
Yes. Yeah. There’s a lot of people who can use, like, the things that you maybe can’t take with you, or that would be too much to take with you. I love that.

Michelle Farmer [00:17:41]:
And a lot of people, like, will refuse it. And I’m like, please, we don’t want to just throw. It’s all useful. Some of it’s still new. Just take it.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:17:54]:
Yeah. So don’t feel guilty taking things, people. That’s the message.

Michelle Farmer [00:17:59]:
Yeah, it’s helpful. Don’t feel guilty. And then also, I think the one thing, I read a blog from Mission mill spouse by KP Palmer, who is, in fact, who used to be a teacher at my middle school while I lived in Darmstadt, Germany. And we reconnected recently. And she is a director of the mission spouse site organization, and she wrote a blog about resiliency. And I’m going to. I’m not going to read the blog, but it’s just talking about her being in a master resiliency class, army’s level one master resiliency training course. And I didn’t realize spouses could take it, so I thought that was really cool.

Michelle Farmer [00:18:53]:
So spouses, you can take this master resiliency course.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:18:56]:
Yeah.

Michelle Farmer [00:18:57]:
And I. But she mentions a lot of things that are pretty much the cognitive restructuring and reframing your mindset. That’s a realistic outcomes rather than catastrophizing. And I think that’s something that I’m still practicing right now, is decatastrophizing. And I think I said that, right.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:19:26]:
Yeah.

Michelle Farmer [00:19:27]:
But reframing my mindset to recognize, you know. Okay, so this is. Yes, this is worst case scenario. This is a best case scenario. What is the most realistic result? What’s the most realistic case that can happen throughout this process?

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:19:49]:
I might insert an example here just so people can have an idea of what we’re talking about. I’m thinking, like, what is a catastrophe thought that I might have. And I was thinking, like, oh, I’m not going to have any friends. That might be, like, a hard thought, especially if I have a really wonderful supportive friend group wherever I currently am living and I’m thinking about the next place.

So worst case scenario might be I don’t have any friends in the new place. Best case scenarios, im the most popular person on the entire base. Okay. Whats more realistic as like, okay, I will probably make friends, but it might be hard at first and I might have to put in some work to get to know people.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:20:41]:
Im thinking like this sort of thing might be this reframing of thoughts that youre talking about.

Michelle Farmer [00:20:49]:
Yeah. And speaking of which, I think overseas can be either depending on who you are and whether you’re a big introvert or an extrovert. I am both. I am exactly half and half extrovert, half introvert. So I know some people that do not want to leave and find new friends or find people that to connect with. They just want to stay where they are and not, you know, connect with new people. And it could be a fear. There’s anxiety, there’s fears that could factor into that.

Michelle Farmer [00:21:28]:
But also there is that option where if you go out, you could easily reconnect, especially overseas, in the small communities of, you know, in Germany or in Europe or in Korea, such locations. I know stateside. It’s harder. I feel like stateside because everything’s more spread out, you know, a lot more stateside. I had family two and a half hour, two and a half hours away from us and 6 hours away from us. But we, we, I had trouble making friends in the states compared to having a support network here overseas. It’s just challenging yourself to connect with new people.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:22:23]:
Yes. And even that can be stressful. So I’m going back to our conversation about, like, eustress versus de stress. Like, I might need to be thinking about how can I, I guess, cope in some way, get some sort of support if I’m feeling the de stress? That way I can somehow switch myself into the EU stress that proactive stress that might help me try to get even a bigger support system or whatever it is.

This example was just the first thing that came to my mind thinking about friends because I’m feeling kind of lonely here in Fallon. But, but it could, I’ve heard it with jobs, too, like careers. I’m going to have to give, give up this career and will I find, will I find a job that I like? And some, I’ve heard it with like, religious organizations, churches that people are, feel very connected to.

There are a lot of ways we’re shifting your entire current support system can be stress can create the de stress, and that somehow I need to rely on that support system still to somehow be able to get into the eustress, to get into the rebuilding of my life process.

Michelle Farmer [00:23:51]:
Yeah. And I know on that note, as a kid, talking about the different roles I’ve lived being an army brat, I know one I didn’t realize I had. I think we discussed this before we started, but when I was a kid, I had friends, and whenever I found out I was gonna move, I was ecstatic. I loved moving. My brother, on the other hand, did not. He hated moving. He. He liked that stability, which is why he’s in one place now with a.

Michelle Farmer [00:24:25]:
His wife, who has lived there all her life. Now they’re there up in the Pacific Northwest, and that’s where he thrives in that stability. I have. I guess I thrive in instability.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:24:39]:
You’re in the Eustress.

Michelle Farmer [00:24:44]:
Yeah. So. But one thing, one unhealthy coping mechanism that I kind of did was I would get mad at my friends, not talk to them anymore, and then be happy to move. But I don’t know where it would, like, why? I was just like, I’m gonna stop talking to you. I don’t want to talk to you anymore. I’m mad at you. It was, you know, but. And I did that all the way up to high school, even college.

Michelle Farmer [00:25:19]:
I think when I was in college, I didn’t connect. And if anybody’s hearing this who knew me back in school, I apologize. But, you know, I’m. I still reconnect. I have reconnected with some others throughout my school age years, but it is that. That I think having the family, parents, or siblings be there and help the kids cope in a more healthy manner, such as including communication and just communicating your feelings, your emotions toward this. Yes, I’m excited, but how do you feel about leaving your friends behind? And I think that’s something that I’m doing with my. With my five year old.

Michelle Farmer [00:26:17]:
As we’re talking about our friends, we’re talking about, you know, moving, so. Yeah.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:26:24]:
Yeah. I’m so glad you’re saying that. You know, I can’t really speak for what your experience was, but I was thinking about a conversation I had recently, actually, about deployment, couples preparing for deployment. But I think it’s very relevant here, because couples who are about to head into a deployment, they might notice more conflict happening between the two of them, and it can be easier to be separated from somebody that I’m mad at. If I really am just loving you, then I just have to be sad. I just have to be sad about the separation. But the. If I can be mad at you, that’s.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:27:12]:
That, in some ways, feels so much better than being sad. It’s kind of like energizing. I can fume and vent a little bit, and then I can go do something fun. And I think that’s a really normal process when. When we might be about to go through a sense of loss. It’s even one of the five stages of grief. Dabda is always how I remember it. Let’s see if I can do it right now.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:27:41]:
Oh, denial, denial, anger, which is what we’re talking about. Bargaining. Bargaining, which is like, well, if. If only I hadn’t married into the military, I wouldn’t have to deal with this. Something like that. If only they had taken a different job, we wouldn’t be dealing with this. Or something like that. Depression, which is that sadness and the loss and probably a lot of that de stress that we’re talking about.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:28:18]:
And then finally, acceptance of the situation. So I think. I didn’t intend to talk about grief here, but I think it’s kind of relevant.

Michelle Farmer [00:28:29]:
But it’s so relevant. It is so relevant. And I think. And it doesn’t always go in that order either, which is so, like, it can pop up in any order. It could recycle. I know when I left from Texas to Mannheim, Germany, where I graduated from my high school, I think I had. I think most of that year or two that I was in Mannheim. I’m not sure.

Michelle Farmer [00:28:58]:
From what I remember, I did not feel like doing much of anything. And maybe there was, like, some sort of sadness there. I don’t want to say depression, because I still was productive in society. I still played soccer. I hung out with friends. But there would be moments where I’m like, I just don’t want to do anything.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:29:22]:
Yeah.

Michelle Farmer [00:29:23]:
You know? And my parents accepted that, too. And that’s one thing. Like, they were supportive. On some Sundays, I would lay in bed and my parents would open the door. Are you going to come with us? No, not today. Okay.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:29:38]:
Yeah. Maybe we can, like, clarify. Like, we can maybe all feel depressed without necessarily having a clinical level of depression in some way that might still kind of emotionally be a little more on the downside, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. We’ve gone all over.

But the other thing that really stood out to me, what you said a little bit ago, was just the difference between you and your brother of, like, how everyone can respond a little bit differently to stressful events and how kids might be responding to the stressful event differently. Some people in a family might be in the eustress section and some others might be in the de stress section.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:30:32]:
And we’re all trying to navigate this change together. And what I love that you said you’re doing with your five year old is really talking very openly about emotions that come up. I think this podcast is called communicate and connect, that we communicate in order to connect. And that’s exactly what you’re doing, is I’m trying. Yeah.

Michelle Farmer [00:31:01]:
Yeah. I think it’s just one of those things where I know growing up, I don’t my parents talk to us as much as they knew how, but my mom growing up in the puerto rican conservative household and my dad growing up in an adverse childhood household, so to say the communication is different.

How to communicate is now different than it was before in terms of learning how to do it in a way that helps your child. Not saying that they did anything wrong, but just saying in a way that let me try something that could help my child cope in a way that helps her move forward. And I think when it comes to my daughter as, as smart as people tell us that she is, we know that she’s very intelligent as well. We also know that she’s also still a five year old. And so that’s something that we have to keep reminding ourselves.

We can talk to her in an, in an adult way, but is she going to grasp the information? Is she going to grasp and understand what we’re saying? Are we going to understand what she’s saying and how she’s saying it? And so I think that’s one of the ways we’re still learning with her, is trying to read between the lines.

Michelle Farmer [00:32:36]:
And that could be challenging for someone who is still learning how to communicate effectively. So, and I know preteens and when, once they get older, it’s a little easier here and there, especially if you, if you are communicating in the household in a way that helps your children be safe and vulnerable with you, to be open. And I think that’s the key aspect of learning how to communicate in the household, is feeling safe and vulnerable enough to be open with your parents and be open with your children.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:33:17]:
Yeah. And I like what you’re saying, or like, how I’m taking in what you’re saying, I guess, is sort of like creating a culture of this and starting when they’re really, really young to create a whole entire family culture, family dynamic. This is how we are as a family, that we want this to be a safe place to be vulnerable and talk about difficult feelings and trying to promote that culture, I guess, with your kids, even while knowing they don’t, they’re not developed enough yet to maybe be successful at it, but still promoting the culture for what you want to grow into together.

Michelle Farmer [00:34:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s not perfect yet. I mean, nothing, no situation is going to be perfect. No response is going to be perfect. I am going to keep saying this. I am not perfect.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:34:15]:
Yeah.

Michelle Farmer [00:34:17]:
No clinician. Well, I don’t want to say it like that, but even as clinicians, we’re still learning how to respond in our own family. I’m not going to be someone, and I’m not a clinician. I’m working towards that goal, but I’m not yet. But in working towards that, we always want to strive for it, but we also need to acknowledge and recognize that we’re, we’re not. That we’re not that perfect person. I guess I know I keep repeating that, but.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:34:59]:
Well, I think that really is important because, you know, I think the, the danger is, like, even if I listen to a podcast and I’m like, oh, my gosh, that person is so amazing what they’re doing on a podcast, you know, and I’m like, why can’t I do that? There’s a danger of comparison that often happens. Like, somehow they have figured it out and I haven’t figured it out yet.

And I think what you’re saying is really important because even though we’re talking about this right now on this podcast, we don’t have the magic. Like, we haven’t magically figured it out and have arrived to the point of, like, we can perfectly cope or something like that.

Michelle Farmer [00:35:44]:
Right.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:35:44]:
It’s that this is a human journey. That is a really hard human journey and that we’re all trying to navigate together and we are only but human imperfectly navigating it together.

Michelle Farmer [00:36:01]:
Yeah, most definitely. And I know you mentioned something about my brother, how my brother and I are, are responded differently growing up to PCs, moves and deployments and stuff like that. And I think. I think, yes, part of it has to do with our personalities and who we are as a person as well as, like, the order of siblings. He was older and how I think it factors into the nature and the nurture aspect of it.

Not every sibling, not every family is going to be the same in responding to PCs. Everybody’s going to respond differently. And I think that’s very important to note because you may have a child who absolutely loves to move but also copes in a different way that may be unhealthy.

Michelle Farmer [00:36:54]:
The sibling may not like to move, but expresses feelings toward that. That may be an indicator to talk with them. So it just depends on that, on the, on seeing those behaviors, recognizing them, acknowledging them and moving forward with it.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:37:17]:
Yeah, well, I’m thinking we’ve covered so much and I’m, I think people are going to get a lot out of this, at least, you know, that’s my hope. But I’m wondering if, if you sort of have last thoughts or last words of wisdom or anything else you really wanted people to know before we sort of start wrapping up this podcast episode.

Michelle Farmer [00:37:43]:
I think just a few more things and I know some kind of blanks to fill in. If the audience wants to know how to say something, if they feel stressed, let your spouse know. I feel this way because please help me do this. Because your spouse isn’t going to know what to do. You need to let them know how to get that help for them to help you get that help that you need to meet your need.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:38:18]:
I’m hearing an I statement, I feel this way. And then also a really clear, could you please help me with this? Like a really clear request.

Michelle Farmer [00:38:27]:
Yes. Yes. And then something that always helps encourage communication is what are you thinking right now? It may be super random, but sometimes it’s something relevant.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:38:41]:
Yeah.

Michelle Farmer [00:38:42]:
So, and then also like kind of summarizing what you’re saying to help understand. Right. And I think if there’s tension in the home regarding pcsing, regarding TD wise deployments, always kind of, not always, but you notice, acknowledge and respectfully and politely kind of confront the stress and the tension in a way that enables both parties, whether it’s going to be the child, parent, parent and parenthood to feel safe enough to unload and resolve the struggles that they’re having, I think that may help.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:39:24]:
Yeah. I love these communication tips that you’re adding in here. Yeah. The I statements, the making really clear requests. And then I loved your tips for just keeping the conversation going. Or like, it’s a communication skill, but it also adds to the connection of like, what are you thinking? I want to know about you. I want to be close to you in your world. And then summarizing, so often we listen to respond back to people versus listening to understand.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:40:01]:
And so I think your comment about like, summarize what they said to you also helps add to that closeness and like decreasing tension because then you’re helping them feel really heard and understood. Yes.

Michelle Farmer [00:40:19]:
Yeah. A few other things. I’m going to stop at this one point. But a few other resources I would like to mention for the teenagers is bloom empowering the teen. I really appreciate some teens founded this. I believe it’s a really good resource on relatedness. If any kids want to get in, look into it. They have social media and stuff on that, too, but they have their own website.

Michelle Farmer [00:40:50]:
Bloom empowering the military team. Really awesome. And also utilize those community resources, the chaplains inflax marriage and family life chaplains marriage and family life consultants that are contracted with military. If anything, if there’s tension that you don’t know how to resolve and. Yeah, yeah, just. I’m sorry, there’s a nat in front of me.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:41:17]:
That’s totally fine. Well, also, like, those are free resources. Like, they don’t. You don’t need tricare. Like all of it’s not an insurance healthcare type of thing. The chaplains and the inflax, those are. Those are just free. And it’s not related to, I don’t know, sort of like counseling without being like mental health counseling, right?

Michelle Farmer [00:41:40]:
Yeah, exactly. They don’t take enflack. Chaplains don’t take. Well, I don’t know chaplains. I don’t think they do. Enflex. Don’t take notes. I’m not really sure they’ll tell you, but it’s not on record.

Michelle Farmer [00:41:56]:
So they’re there to support and advocate for you.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:42:00]:
So. Yeah. Great. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I’ve really, really enjoyed having you here and really enjoyed.

Michelle Farmer [00:42:11]:
Thank you so much. Yes, I did, too. I really appreciate. Thank you.

Dr. Elizabeth Polinsky [00:42:26]:
I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. If so, please take a second to go rate, review and subscribe so you get all of our future episodes. Make sure to check out the show notes to sign up for our free ten week relationship email course. This email course is really designed for people who are maybe having trouble with communication or connection in their relationship, helping them develop some quick wins right away to start improving it.

While I am a therapist, this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not considered therapy and it should also not be a replacement for therapy. If you think you need a professional of any kind, you should definitely go find one. Until next time.